Writing to Publish

W2P GUEST SPEAKERS

Barry Longyear

Mr. Longyear is a science fiction author. His story "Enemy Mine" became a well-known movie.

[Technical note: from 2011 onward the chat logs appear different, because our W2P guest sessions were held in an IRC-based chat room, rather than via an AOL chat room.]

3/10/12 18:04:44 Opening "Chat Log 3-10-12"

BL (Barry Longyear) has joined #write2publish
Paul: Hello!
Paul: I mentioned the session on my Facebook page, and at least one person has already responded.
BL: Ifinally found where to put in my responses! Victory!
Paul: As you can see, the text window is at the bottom.
Paul: Still an hour to go, anyway the room isn't going anywhere.
BL: You didn't indicate how bottom bottom was. On my browser it's a pale streak.
Paul: Huh
BL: It's a solved problem.
Paul: All different. I am using ChatZilla, which allows colors and stuff.
BL: IE
Paul: You can even pay $$$ for fancy IRC client software.
Paul: CZ is an add-on for the Firefox browswer.
Paul: I have a Mac, and you can't even get IE for Macs any more . . .
BL: $$$ I use on skiing and going to cons.
Paul: Sounds like good priorities to me.
Paul: Anything of yours coming up in Analog?
BL: Nothing new. Been converting stuff to Kindle and working on my new Joe Torio mystery.
Paul: Cool. I was beating my head against the Smashwords AutoVetter all week. Finally passed 4 stories and got them okayed.
BL: Three of the links you sent me went to a "server unavailable 503" thingy.
Paul: Yes, the initial ones dropped a single letter. No 'close enoughs' on the Internet.
BL: I've got to look into smashwords. Have a bunch of Nook requests for stuff.
Paul: I have a story in the next (June) Analog, and Stan just bought a fourth in that series.
Paul: Not nearly as fun as your duck detective tales.
BL: Congratulations. It's good to have work.
Paul: Thanks
BL: Going to have to do a Jaggers & Shad novel. It's a really fun universe in which to work.
Paul: Go for it!
BL: I set those stories mostly in Devon because my wife and I visited so many thimes there. Dartmoor is a really cool place to set tales.
BL: In this chat room, is there any way to insert pictures?
Paul: Makes me think of Hound of the Baskervilles.
Paul: Hope to go there someday. Only been to London, and that just briefly.
Paul: Hmm . . . I'm pretty sure it's text only.
Paul: But you can 'drop' web links, which folks can open in a separate window.
Paul:
Paul: (Google Street View) I spent one summer in that hotel, long ago.
BL: There's a really cool website I found. A fellow took pictures of every tor in Dartmoor and put them up. Crummy view of the hotel.
Paul: You can switch the view all around. I see Google even added a third dimension, you can look upwards!
Paul: All that ancient history. In my town, there is literally nothing manmade older than about 120 years.
BL: I am a goggle with Google.
BL: How many gaggles can Google goggle . . . a woodchuck chuck?
Paul: Close
BL: I went to an AA meeting in a church in Exeter that was over I.000 years old.
Paul: Amazing
BL: There was another church we visited, the vicar there had a book that listed all of the vicars from 1200 years ago to the present (him). Now that's continuity.
Paul: And in ten more years it'll be a mosque.
Paul: Hopefully with a similar sense of the venerable history.
BL: That's continuity, that is.
BL: I keep waiting for the "bending over backwards until I'm a pretzel" bunch to morph into the "Reality Rangers." Don't think it's going to happen without a lot more bombs going off.
Paul: We shall see.
Paul: Now reading a review of "John Carter," based on the Burroughs novel.
BL: Of course, when it comes to prediction, Joe Haldeman and I were on a panel years ago in which we agreed that nuclear war 'tween US & USSR was inevitable.
BL: They like John Carter? I used to like the books.
Paul: If anybody nukes us, it'll be Iran with an EMP launched from a tramp freigher.
Paul: Ought to sic John Carter on them!
Paul: One thing about science fiction, no shortage of doomsday scenarios, or the dystopias which follow.
BL: Had the US & Iran in a war in my novel Turning The Grain. It was in Analog.
Paul: The NYT review mentions the newer Frazetta 'he man' covers bear no relation whatsoever to the book's gentlemanly Carter.
Paul: Ah yes, I enjoyed Turning the Grain.
Paul: Seems like, every year some 'earlier' find is made, of human advancement.
BL: It is now in England looking for a publisher.
Paul: With no mention of the flip side, so why did it take so #@^#!!! long for humans to get it together?
BL: Russia. They love me in Russia.
Paul: Nice! I got one reprint in Esli, nothing since.
BL: I've proposed a talk for the next Readercon titled "What in the hell do I have to put on the paper to make a sale?" Don't know if it's going to be approved.
Paul: They claim that computers are getting smarter and more capable.
Paul: Like, AI minds.
Paul: If so, I want a keyboard with a 'write novel' button.
Paul: One touch authorship.
BL: We almost have that now with cut-and-paste. Some minor legal entanglements, tho . . .
Paul: LOL
Paul: Our writers group's most popular pages are swarmed by kids doing homework.
BL: Trouble is, I like writing. With no sales, I'll still be at it.
Rose1533 (Carol) has joined #write2publish
Paul: Today I see page views from several countries. Argentina and Australia, and of course Canada.
Paul: Hi Carol
BL: I wonder if my grades would've been any better if I'd had a computer when I was in school.
Rose1533: Hi.
Paul: Who knows?
Rose1533: I KNOW mine wouldn't have been. I started out in Computer Science.
Paul: Carol, I was just saying, today the Fiction Genres main page has views from Australia, Argentina, and Canada.
Rose1533: Computer languages weren't my thing, apparently.
Paul: Yesterday, from Trinidad.
BL: When I was in school, the computer was called a slide rule.
Dale: You're a computer science major, Carol? Who'd have known.
Rose1533: No, I failed miserably, Dale.
Rose1533: I changed my major and ended up with a BS in Political Science.
Dale: I studied Pascal. I was good at it. Now the language has been completely eliminated. You can't even buy a disc to install it on a computer.
BL: I dropped out of college. It made writing much easier.
Rose1533: I think that was the second language I had to learn. Basic was first.
Paul: I see that we got linked by a new page for 6th grade teachers, as well.
Paul: About YA literature.
Dale: Pascal has lots of rules. Now they prefer languages that don't have any rules.
Rose1533: I guess with a Poli Sci degree, that might explain my love of Fantasy.
Paul: Carol, all that politics shows in your work.
Paul: Kingdoms in rivalry.
Dale has joined #write2publish
Dale: Hello everyone!
Rose1533: There's no rivalry between the human kingdoms. t's between species mostly.
Paul: Dale and , , , Dale
BL: Paul, going to get a cup of tea. Be back by 10.
Rose1533: Just out of curiosity, what's the deal with two screen names, Dale?
Paul: Good point, they are always genial.
Paul: Is there a Troll & Ogre kingdom?
Rose1533: Oh yes. It's on the other continent.
Dale: I'm here on Firefox Chatzilla and I'm also here on Colloquy, which only works on a Mac. I explained to Paul that I watched a program on quantum mechanics and learned to be two places at the same time.
Dale: I could turn on another computer and be here under three screen names.
Paul: There's another continent?
Rose1533: Yeah. That's where Kaela is attacked later in the story.
Rose1533: The chapter you read.
Rose1533: You also read about the sprite, Serendipity. That's on the far continent, too.
Paul: Learn something every day.
Julie has left quakenet (Quit: Page closed) Dale: Hi, Julie. Let me be the first to welcome you.
Paul: she left!
Dale: My welcome was premature.
Paul: Or is monkeying around with her server.
Dale: Is the Far Continent like the antipodes?
Rose1533: Antipodes?
Rose1533: It's just across the ocean. Like on our own world. -->| Josiphine1 has joined #write2publish
Rose1533: I actually worked on my book today.
Rose1533: Hi, Josie.
Paul: Lemuria, Atlantis, Hyperborea, etc.
Josiphine1: Hi Paul, Carol,Dale. and BuyBooks :)
Paul: I need to decide what to do.
Rose1533: But not really moving forward. Rewriting.
Dale: The antipodes is an authentic medieval concept. One Spanish theologian concluded that the people on the antipodes must have their feet on backwards.
sunsetd (Richard) has joined #write2publish
Paul: Work on a different story, or finishing a novel, or doing my fifth robot-trucker story.
Paul: Greetings senset
Paul: New here?
Rose1533: Hi, Sunset
Josiphine1: Hi Sunset
Julie has joined #write2publish
Josiphine1: Hi Julie
Rose1533: WB, Julie
BL: Paul, I'm back. Give me a little jab if there's a question I might answer.
Adam has joined #write2publish
Julie: Hi guys. Havng computer problems, so on my tablet.
Adam: How did I know?
Adam: Good evening, all.
Dale: Hi Julie, Josephine. Hi, Adam.
Rose1533: Hi Adam
Adam: What's going on, Chip?
Adam: Paulson, what's new?
sunsetd: Hi. Thanks. I'm a friend of Paul's. Just figuring out how to do this; am checking out your group.
Rose1533: Julie, are you in Texas? I recognize part of your address--rr is roadrunner and satx is San Antonio. We used to live there.
Paul: Ah, this must be Richard.
Paul: Mr Longyear is online, and will be back in a minute.
sunsetd: That's right. Howdy.
Julie: Yup, moved from Houston to San Antonio about a month ago.
Rose1533: What part? We lived in WNW. 4.5 miles from Sea World. Loved it!
BL: I'm here right now.
BL: IT'S 10:04 ANYBODY HAVE A QUESTION?
Paul: : : : bangs gavel : : :
Rose1533: OK, what genre do you write, Barry?
Paul: All righty then, we can commence our session.
Paul: And Carol is first!
Julie: We havent found a good sports bar/ hot wing place yet, any ideas? We are living in the medical center off Babcock.
Rose1533: I'll get back to you, Julie. I promise.
Dale: I'm not a fan of sports bars.
BL: I write stories. Whoever buys them lets me know what genre fits. Thus far it's SF, fantasy, mystery, recovery, and non-fiction mostly writing instruction.
Paul: Recovery?
Dale: Not obsessed with genre. I agree. Think how many good novels wouldn't have been written, or published, if they had to fit neatly in a category.
BL: Previous answer was for Rose1533.
Julie: Barry, do you have trouble not being genre specific?
Rose1533: He knows, but he made a valid observation. Thanks to you both.
BL: Only when it comes to marketing. Sales departments sell units, not stories.
Rose1533: Can we find your books in the stores?
Julie: Do you write books or shorter works?
BL: Amazon, Amazon, Amazon.
Paul: Mr. Longyear is a fellow Analog author. (He's written many more than I have.)
BL: You can order them through stores, but it costs more.
Rose1533: Yeah, Mines a POD. But my local B&N bought three for their store.
Dale: I knew there was a reason I order from Amazon.
Julie: Do you find fault with Amazon's attacks on physical bookstores?
Rose1533: Also on Kindle?
Dale: Glad to hear it, Carol.
Julie: Big war between them and B&N.
Rose1533: Thanks, Dale. None have sold as of the last time I was there, but I'm not surprised.
BL: About 1/3 of my stuff is on Kindle and am converting the rest. As for Amazon, it is keeping me alive right now. All my books are in print and I make enough off the Amazon sales so I can keep writing.
Rose1533: Are they all under Barry Longyear?
BL: Yes. Google Barry Longyear and go to my buy books page. Or go to Amazon and search for Barry B. Longyear.
Rose1533: Ooo, I found you on my Kindle.
BL: Then my work is done.
Paul: Mr Longyear, we all dream of getting a movie deal.
Paul: You've done it!
Paul: How did that come about?
BL: Christ! The effing movie! It was at Denvention, the producer told me he was interested, I thought he was drunk, I told my wife, she thought I was drunk, I forgot about it, then the contract arrived in the mail.
Julie: lol
Paul: Wow!
Paul: The moral of the story: pay attention at genre conventions.
Rose1533: You're very prolific. How long does it generally take for you to write a book?
Dale: We spend our lives waiting for those contracts.
Paul: IMHO, his 'Jaggers and Shad' duck-detective stories in Analog are hilarious. (But some readers complained, just didn't get it . . . )
Rose1533: Tell me about it.
BL: The shortest time was 5 weeks (The God Box); the longest time was 9 years (Sea of Glass).
Julie: Is that consecutive or start to finish?
Rose1533: As everyone here knows, I've got you beat. 22 years from start to publication. I only WISH I could write faster!
BL: The big mistake was that the Jaggers & Shad stories were serious mysteries.
Rose1533: Oh dear. So they weren't supposed to be funny at all? Or were they like the Janet Evanovich stories? Serious, but funny, too?
Paul: Lots at stake, yet a light-hearted tone.
BL: The God Box was both consecutive, wall to wall, 24-7 writing (including rewrites & proofing). That book was so much fun I simply couldn't stop writing.
Paul: Way to go!
Julie: I can relate. Sometimes the best way to address the serious is with humor.
BL: Sea of glass was on and off, 3,000,000 words worth of rewrites, and I had to learn a big lesson before I could finish it.
Rose1533: I didn't count words when rewriting. Years--13. 7 for the rough, and two from contract to publication.
BL: The reason I counted them was because the head of the English Department at the local school wantedd me to bring in all the drafts I had to a story to show the kids it wasn't just once through the typewriter.
BL: I terrorized the lot of them out of writing.
Julie: lol
Rose1533: No kidding! So what was the final word count?
BL: The novel is about 120,000 words. I've described this whole affair in The Write Stuff, and how I turned finishing the book over to my main character and let him do the work. And it worked!
sunsetd: 3,000,000 words! 13 years! Now I don't feel so bad...
Rose1533: I was once in a face-to-face critique group. I had to print out about 6 copies of my chapters each time.
BL: It took Mackinley Kantor (or however he spells it) 25 years to write Andersonville.
Rose1533: My book ended up close to 130k.
Julie: Wow, alot of dead trees fot that, huh Carol.
Rose1533: I recycle, Julie.
Paul: I feel guilty about inconveniencing so many electrons.
Rose1533: In the case of my book, though, old copies of chapters get shredded first.
BL: Did you know that Earl Stanley Gardner wrote over a hundred novels before he sold his first one?
Julie: Don't want the reference?
Paul: Whoa, a hundred?
Paul: And there must be a hundred Perry Mason novels _in_ print.
Rose1533: Wow. my book is the first I ever started with. And I stuck with it.
Adam: I only started writing faster, myself.
BL: When I read that, I was awed by the man's persistence.
Adam: I've got one novel that has taken me well over 15 years to write. Of course, this is because I laid it down for several years, so I'm not sure if that counts as taking time writing it.
Rose1533: True. My 20 years of writing and rewriting includes several times when it was put aside because we were moving. That does tend to happen in the military.
Adam: Glad to hear you had fun with The God Box though, Barry. I know how it can be to enjoy writing a particular story.
BL: It counts. The characters are always gnawing at you. It only feels like guilt, depression, and lack of self esteem.
Rose1533: Now I've suffered from clinical depression. Did my biggest rewrite while I was still on medication.
Adam: Heh, you're right about that, Barry. But this time has actually given me a new voice and direction with the story, if you can believe that. I plan on finishing it, FINALLY, this year before I turn 36.
sunsetd: In writing a book, Barry, how much do you plot out ahead and how much do you let it write itself?
Adam: That's out of this world, Rosie.
Julie: There are times that I think I live too much through my characters. i have wept while writing a sad scene.
Rose1533: Mark was deployed, so we went to Sea World a lot that summer, and as I don't do roller coasters and Emily does, she'd ride and I'd sit on the bench and write.
Adam: It's okay, Julie. JK Rowling said she cried, as she wrote a particular scene for a beloved character.
BL: I come up with the story situation: character in his setting, with a goal, obstacle in the path of that goal -- then I start writing. I don't plan or plot unless I have to work off a historical period.
Adam: Wrote on your laptop, eh, Rose?
Rose1533: Julie, I gave my character an anxiety attack and two days later, I had my first. I don't recommend it.
sunsetd: I see. Thanks.
Rose1533: Didn't have a laptop then. wrote in a notebook that was on my lap, but it was pen and paper.
Adam: Gotcha. Well that can be fun too. I remember the good old days of writing in a physical notebook.
Rose1533: Still take it when we go to amusement parks. NOT this netbook.
Adam: Kids today probably don't know what the heck that is. lol
Paul: Reading: it's how you upload software into your brain.
BL: I learned to type because I can't read my own handwriting.
Paul: LOL
Paul: I'm a two-finger typist.
Rose1533: For some reason, I prefer yellow legal pad and red ink. Weird since yellow is my absolute LEAST favorite color.
Adam: lol Barry.
Dale: I thought yellow was the color of happiness.
Rose1533: Also the color of cowardice and jaundice.
Dale: Never thought of it that way.
Julie: Yup, Im working off of my Archos tablet tonight. I had a sudden loss in my computer family.
Rose1533: But it doesn't seem to bother me in some cases.
Rose1533: I can't say why.
Paul: My cyber condolances. Services will be held at the e-recycle place behind the railyard.
Rose1533: Oh dear.
Adam: I was taught yellow was the color of fearfulness.
Adam: Red the color of anger or rage. Blue the color of sadness or depression. Green the color of envy.
BL: It is the color of the horse cavalry.
Paul: This color?
Adam: I think either orange or pink was the color of happiness, Chip.
Rose1533: Never heard of that. You can be fearful and still do the thing you fear.
Paul: Bluebird of Happiness.
Rose1533: Rainbow.
Adam: Sure, Rose, you can always conquer a fear.
BL: Don't conquer fear; Put it in your writing!
Paul: Mr. Longyear, what was your first sale?
BL: "The Tryouts" in IASFM 1978.
Rose1533: Brave isn't the opposite of afraid. I think its opposite is cowardly. Fear can be involved in both.
Dale: Green is the color of growth and healing.
Paul: Yes, the fears of the main character will be all too vivid . . .
Adam: You mean like the Sinestro Corps of DC, Barry?
Julie: But writing is a way to conquer fear.
Rose1533: Gad! I wasn't even out of High school then.
Paul: Was Gardner Dozois editing Asimov's then?
BL: Green is the color of spinach.
Rose1533: Perhaps there's hope for me after all.
Adam: Maybe that's why Popeye loves it.
Julie: I was born in 74.
Rose1533: I love spinach!
BL: Editor then was George H. Scithers ("The Colonel").
Rose1533: 62.
Paul: Green for Ireland, Islam, and the Environment.
Dale: Spinach is a nutritious green leaf that grows in the sun.
Paul: Cool
Rose1533: Turn 50 in 8 days.
Julie: Happy Birthday!
Rose1533: Thanks.
BL: Spinach is marketable slime.
Josiphine1: Happy Birthday Carol . :)
Paul: Wow Carol, the big 5 - 0
Julie: Green is for envy and unbrushed teeth.
Rose1533: The one thing I'm not looking forward to is my first colonoscopy. :-S
BL: It is a lot of Ugh with a little Ooo.
Julie: It isnt a big deal, catch me offline.
Rose1533: Speaking of.... I'm missing it. I guess I'll watch it on the DVR.
Julie: A colonoscopy?
Paul: I thought it was fascinating.
Rose1533: No, Paul said 5-0.
Dale: Spinach is only slime if you cook it too much.
Rose1533: I watch Hawaii 5-0.
Paul: Sort of like "Fantastic Voyage" but real and in realtime.
Julie: ah
Rose1533: LOL!
Julie: I was passed out on Versed
Rose1533: I guess I'll find out soon enough.
Rose1533: Also have a niece ready to give birth to her second child any day now.
Julie: I have no recollection of those events.
Rose1533: Lots of March b-days.
Julie: Cool! Paul: Not too many stories about colonoscopies, in any genre.
Paul: Not even in science fiction.
sunsetd: Barry, how much of what you write would you say is "autobiographical?"
Julie: Unless you are Katie Couric.
BL: All of it.
Rose1533: OMG, have you seen that ad Ozzy Osborne is doing? His wife asks him what his dream is, and he says to have a colonoscopy in NYC.
Paul: Interesting, Barry.
Rose1533. It's something CBS is sponsoring.
sunsetd: Interesting.
Rose1533: CBS Cares.
Julie: Yup, but the wife almost died from colon cancer, so...
Paul: The reptile alien, the duck detective, you must have a vast personality and a fertile imagination.
Rose1533: Oh, I didn't realize that. NOW it makes sense.
sunsetd: Barry, what authors/books inspire you?
Paul: When I post this session, I'll have to sort out the intertwined topics -- if possible.
Rose1533: LOL!
Paul: Good question Richard.
Julie> Topic 1: Barry, topic 2: The poopshoot and images of such...
BL: Mark Twain, Jack Vance, Roger Zalasny, Robert Heinlein, Poul Anderson, Isaac Asimov, Frank Herbert, Robert B. Parker Vince Flynn, .... shit, this could take all night.
Paul: Mostly current authors.
sunsetd: That's enough to start with.
Paul: Vince Flynn writes about his very tough and persistent hero.
Rose1533: Sorry I brought it up. 50 is the age it's recommended for and last year, a friend who shares my birthday reminded me of that, and I haven't forgotten all year.
Paul: So does Zelasny, come to think of it, like the heroic prince in Nine Princes in Amber.
Julie: lol, it really isnt that bad.
Paul: Poul Anderson encouraged me to get serious about writing SF.
BL: I know what this is going to sound like, but I am also inspired by my own stuff. I like reading Barry B. Longyear. I don't learn anything new, but every now and then I get to say, "Wow. I did that."
Paul: Wish he was still around, I could report back, yep I'm in SFWA and the Analog MAFIA now.
Paul: No way you can recall your entire body of work, so there will be a few surprises always waiting on the shelf.
Julie: Is the Analog Mafia like the Blonde Mafia?
Paul: It stands for Making Appearances Frequently in Analog.
Paul: (Maybe the qualifier is 5 stories? I forget.)
Paul: Barry has qualified many times over.
Julie: Very different then, but I' ve said too much...
Rose1533: I know what you mean, Barry. There's a line in the climax of book two that one of my dragons says that's so profound, I actually looked for it in Bartlett's Familiar Quotes to make sure she wasn't copying someone.
Paul: Actually there is a dead-serious think tank, Sigma.
Paul: Advises government agencies and such.
Julie: I need to head out guys. Have a good night.
Rose1533: Night, Julie
BL: Wait until you call upon that secret writing staff in your unconscious. There are entire chapters in Sea of Glass I don't remember putting in that book.
Paul: The hour has flown!
Julie has left quakenet (Quit: http://www.androirc.com/)) Paul: Sorry to keep you up late, Mr Longyear.
Paul: Thanks very much for participating.
BL: It's been weird, colonoscopy, yellow, spinach and such.
Rose1533: Writing staff? Gee, there's a staff in my book, but it doesn't write!
Paul: (Now I need to invite some more authors)
Josiphine1: Night Julie also heading out night Paul and everyone and ty for coming in also Barry great night. :)
Josiphine1 has left quakenet (Quit: Page closed)
Paul: Barry, all of our sessions are weird. Comes with the territory.
Rose1533: Besides the ones who are regular members of the group!
Paul: Yes, the subconscious becomes an able assistant.
Paul: Dreams, flashes of inspiration.
Rose1533: Oh and welcome, Richard.
Paul: Maybe from heaven, too, if you believe in such.
Rose1533: I love dreams. They end up in my book.
sunsetd: Thanks. Now that I know how this works...
BL: The secret staff in your head, when you get out of your own way, will do absolute magic in your writing. Peek at someone's copy of The Write Stuff. That's where the magic is. Good night, everyone, and good luck with your writing. Keep it fun.
Paul: Richard is a real-world friend of mine.
Rose1533: Chapter 28 of The Master and the Fighter. Paul He's written snippets a lot like Julie's, but from his childhood.
Rose1533: Had to invent a new country and three new characters to put it in, but.....
Paul: I need to give my staff a secret raise.
Adam: Try a world made out of dreams, Rosie.
Adam: Goodnight, Barry, thanks for stopping by.
BL has left quakenet (Quit: Page closed)
Rose1533: Kaela still has to find hers. And YOU KNOW WHO has it!
Rose1533: Night, all.
Adam: Goodnight, Rose of the Lar.
Rose1533 has left quakenet (Quit: Page closed)
sunsetd: Nothing unsustainable, Paul. Goodnight.
Adam: Goodnight, everyone. I too shall take my leave.
Paul: Thanks, and good night everyone.

3/10/12 20:09:33 Closing "Chat Log 3-10-12"

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