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W2P GUEST SPEAKERS

Brad Torgerson

Brad is an award-winning science fiction author.

[Technical note: from 2011 onward the chat logs appear different, because our W2P guest sessions were held in an IRC-based chat room, rather than via an AOL chat room.]


1/09/12 18:50:42 Opening "Chat Log 1-9-12"

* Brad_Torgersen has joined #write2publish
thejuliechris: Welcome Brad.
Brad_Torgersen: Hello!
thejuliechris: Thanks for coming. I am the resident computer geek, so I live in the IRC chat to keep it open. Everyone else should be here soon.
thejuliechris: Did you have any trouble getting in?
Brad_Torgersen: Nope, Paul squared me away. Thanks. =^)
thejuliechris: Great.
* kyleaisteach has joined #write2publish
kyleaisteach: Wow. IRC. How old-school.
Brad_Torgersen: Indeed, this reminds me of the chat feature from the old Citadel BBS days. Now *that* is olde schoole. (grin)
thejuliechris: Yup, this isn't like typing on a black and green terminal and waiting for lag to catch up.
kyleaisteach: I was a moderator on a BBS in college. I feel so old...
thejuliechris: The old vt100s...
Brad_Torgersen: 600 baud!
thejuliechris: I was in BBS in college too...I've been old for forever.
kyleaisteach: See, my first modem was 1200 baud. Before that I had to walk to campus and use the computer lab. Uphill, both ways...
* PCarlson has joined #write2publish
thejuliechris: lol
Brad_Torgersen: I used to BBS on a Commodore 64. (g)
thejuliechris: I wrote programs on a Commodore and saved them on audio cassettes, and I am not yet 40.
Brad_Torgersen: Cassette drive! Now *THAT* is olde schoole!
kyleaisteach: I wasn't allowed to use Dad's Vic 20, but I had a commodore Adam as my first computer.
thejuliechris: Hi Paul...we are discussing our age in relation to technology. Cassette drive was better than punch cards
thejuliechris: Kyle, do I know you? I am blond, so I occasionally forget. ;-)
kyleaisteach: Juliechris, I don't think so. I responded to Brad's cry for people to join the channel over on the WotF forum.
Brad_Torgersen: I still remember how long it took to load the old SSI Dungeons and Dragons games via the 5-1/4" floppies. (churn, churn, churn)
* Amandahas joined #write2publish
Jan 09 20:57:27 Bad Manda! HUGZ!
PCarlson: My dad was telling me about their first home telephone. And radio. Then TV. Yep, he just turned 86 years old
Amanda: Why am I bad Manda? And why am I suddenly reminded of AOL chat?
thejuliechris: I remember what a big deal it was to create a dual boot with Windows and Novell...
PCarlson: Welcome, Brad, and Amanda
Amanda: Ugh, Novell,
thejuliechris: Nice to meet you. Hello Amanda
Amanda: Hello
kyleaisteach: likewise.
PCarlson: Kyle! I remember you from WesternCon, last year :-)
Jan 09 20:58:52 PC, then I'm afraid you have the advantage, as I don't recognize you by your handle.
Brad_Torgersen: I still have nightmares about having to load the old Novell client onto Windows95 computers. (g)
Amanda: We have a client at work that still uses Novell.
thejuliechris: I still support some Novell, funny huh? They have a very good identity management suite that runs on SUSE.
Amanda: "What does Tree or Server cannot be found mean?"
thejuliechris: It means that you didn't give the correct authentication path, Amanda.
Amanda: Oh, I know that. It's just a call we get all the time.
thejuliechris: That was awful Brad...half the time it corrupted something and you had to start over.
Brad_Torgersen: LOL! LOL! Yes, yes it did.
Amanda: I won't be in long. Have to get my 2000 words (or close to it) and shower
Brad_Torgersen: LOL! Once upon a time, Novell was *everywhere.* Now....?
thejuliechris: I loaded a windows 95 dual boot using floppy disks and you had to use a special command to get the 32 bit operating system.
Amanda: I failed my A+ because of Novell.
thejuliechris: Ick... I wonder if it is still part of the A+ exam.
Amanda: Don't worry about Novell, the instructor said. Nobody uses it anymore he said.
Brad_Torgersen: I never did try for an A+, nor an MCSE, though I took the classes. Amazingly, work experience got me where I am today.
Amanda: Same here. I took an A+ course after college, but my degree is in Liberal Arts.
Brad_Torgersen: Funny how instructors lie. He probably didn't have an A+ either.
thejuliechris: When I got out of college, I ended up with a crappy tester position. I took my vacation and a loan and went to an MCSE bootcamp to get my cert. Two weeks and passed all of the tests. The rest is history.
Amanda: Don't know. He was a contractor the school hired to teach it.
PCarlson: More W2P regulars are on the way
* Rose1533 has joined #write2publish
thejuliechris: Hi Rose!
Rose1533: Hi, Julie.
thejuliechris: Paul, I was looking into a way to get the AOL chat to automatically write over here. I think that we would need to get an account and write a scraping program to get that to work....unless we paste it manually.
PCarlson: Scraping program, sounds even more fun than Novell
* Josie has joined #write2publish
thejuliechris: It strips the text and saves it to (usually) a database that allows it to be parsed.
Josie: Hi Paul and everyone:)
thejuliechris: Hi Josie
Rose1533: Hi, Josie.
Amanda: So when does this chat go down? Once a week? Every night?
* MorenoHill has joined #write2publish
thejuliechris: It is up all the time. It isn't always populated though. I registered it with Quake, so it is always on.
* KaryJ has joined #write2publish
MorenoHill: HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Amanda: Kary!
thejuliechris: Hi Moreno!
thejuliechris: Welcome Kary
Brad_Torgersen: Can I just say God bless KFC for doing the deep-fried apple pies, like McDonalds used to do them? NUM NUM NUM
MorenoHill: (((((((((((((((((( Julie ))))))))))))))))))
PCarlson: Yeah
Amanda: Eyooo, fried food
KaryJ: Hi, All!
PCarlson: Yummy and a half.
Brad_Torgersen: NOM NOM NOM
MorenoHill: ((((((((((((((((((((( Amanda ))))))))))))))))))))))))
Josie: {{{{{{{{{{{{{Adam and everyone }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}Happy New Year and this will be a great year:)
thejuliechris: I miss deep fried chocolate pies...
MorenoHill: ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( Rose of the Lar ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
* mrmeadors has joined #write2publish
MorenoHill: (((((((((((((((((((((((((((( Josie )))))))))))))))))))))))))
thejuliechris: Mcd's still does the apple ones, but they call them empanadas now
Amanda: Deep fried just makes me sick to my tummy
Brad_Torgersen: This is so taking me back. I love it.
thejuliechris: Welcome MrMeadors
thejuliechris: That sucks Amanda
MorenoHill: Hey there, Kary.
Amanda: I think it's MRMeadors
KaryJ: Yeah, IRC... Wow. Talk about yer ol' Olivetti.
Brad_Torgersen: Amanda, I get that with greasy breakfasts that have bacon and eggs and sausage.
Amanda: Mmmm, bacon I can handle
Amanda: deep fried food has me worshiping the porcelain god at 2am
Brad_Torgersen: Me too.
Rose1533: Yeah, I like bacon better than sausage, too. Breakfast sausage, that is.
thejuliechris: I could eat lard with a spoon, but can't eat any sugar.
* fjm3eyes has joined #write2publish
PCarlson: Frank!
Rose1533: HI, Frank.
fjm3eyes_: Hi Paul
Brad_Torgersen: Paul, are you the moderator?
thejuliechris: Brad, Paul is the owner, I'm his geek lackey.
Brad_Torgersen: Ah, so you are moderator?
thejuliechris: Kinda. I keep things working.
thejuliechris: Brad, why don't you start by telling us about yourself.
Brad_Torgersen: Gotcha. Well, I don't know the format for these, so lead the way.
PCarlson: <--- supreme commander and El Leder Maximo
thejuliechris: PCarlson = Muy Grande Queso
PCarlson: I think that's a quorum
PCarlson: Folks, our guest speaker this evening is Brad Torgerson. He is a fast-rising SF author. How fast? He started in Analog a couple of years after me, and has already out-sold me. :-)
PCarlson: Thanks, Brad, for joining W2P this evening
Brad_Torgersen: The short version is that I've loved sci-fi forever, but never wanted to write it seriously until I did some episodes for a home-spun radio serial. That was in 1992. Many rejected stories and aborted books and lots of doubt and anguish later, I finally got into pro print in Writers of the Future vol. XXVI. Amanda has known me since we discovered each other on the WOTF forum in 2008. Since I won WOTF, lots of Good Things have been happening
PCarlson: And the floor is yours
Amanda: Only because you keep playing the game, Brad
Brad_Torgersen: Yup, Analog. It's been a pleasure getting to have four stories in print, capped by the cover story for December's issue. Amanda, yes indeed. Can't win if you don't play!
Josie: awesome Brad:)
thejuliechris: Congrats!
* Strycher has joined #write2publish
thejuliechris: Welcome Strycher
Strycher: Yo!
Rose1533: So it's all stories in Analog?
Brad_Torgersen: FYI, it was 870,000 unpublished words and over 130 rejections, before I won WOTF. No escaping paying my dues. Nope.
* MartinShoemaker has joined #write2publish
PCarlson: 130 . . . whoa!!!
Strycher: 130? Congrats!
PCarlson: That's your 10,000 hours of gaining real expertise
Brad_Torgersen: Not only Analog. Also Orson Scott Card's Intergalactic Medicine Show. And I have done some collaborations with Mike Resnick which are coming out in various projects. Our latest is out now in an e-anthology called THE FATHOMLESS ABYSS from Phil Athans, late of Wizards of the Coast.
Brad_Torgersen: Paul, indeed. 10,000 hours and then some, if I count it all up.
Strycher: Martin! What's up?
MartinShoemaker: Just procrastinating when I should be writing a goat story.
Amanda: baaaaaah
Brad_Torgersen: LOL, Martin.
thejuliechris: Goat story?
Rose1533: But all short stories? No novels?
Strycher: Goat? Never mind.
thejuliechris: Does it poop out a tin can when you are done?
Rose1533: LOL!
Amanda: Oh, he's got a novel he's working on, been working on for what? Over a year now?
KaryJ: I'm thinking he means gruff.
Amanda: punk
Brad_Torgersen: All short fiction, yes. Am finalizing a re-draft of a book that Baen is interested in seeing.
Strycher: Ha! Amanda!
Brad_Torgersen: Amanda, yeah, more like 2 years, counting its inception in December 2009.
Amanda: Annie needs to slap you with the stuffed Catfish
Strycher: Do you mind if I ask about this work-in-progress book, Brad?
Rose1533: That's not long. Took me 22 years from conception to publication.
Brad_Torgersen: LOL, Amanda.
KaryJ: If you need (yet another) beta reader, Brad, I'm here.
Brad_Torgersen: Strycher, no, go ahead. Kary, at this stage I just want to finish this re-draft, and call it done. It's long since past time to move on to new territory.
Strycher: I was just curious where you started? Characters? Concept? Did you hash an outline?
Brad_Torgersen: Character, really. Someone my wife and I cooked up between us in the mid-90s, originally for a radio script we wanted to do. There is not much similarity between the original character, and what she's become since then. The book will be titled REARDON'S LAW, unless Baen (or someone else) wants me to change it.
mrmeadors: (Hi all) Do you find there is much difference between writing your short stuff and the novel? What is different? Meaning, your methods.
* PCarlson has changed the topic to: Welcome Brad Torgerson
* saweb22 has joined #write2publish
PCarlson: Hi Saul
saweb22: Hi All. Just won 3rd Place in the 2011 Smart Write Book Awards - Children's Book Category.
thejuliechris: Congrats Saul!
Strycher: congrats saweb
PCarlson: Saul is our resident Gruff New Yorker -- who writes delightful children's stories
saweb22: The contest is run by Smart Book Lovers [made up of members of MENSA]
Strycher: So, undertaking a novel seems really daunting to me. I'm very curious what techniques you're using to keep your head above water. (Or have you found it more intuitive than that?)
Brad_Torgersen: Oh yes, vastly different. Basically, I can "seat of the pants" anything under 25,000 words. Over that? I crash and burn without an outline. This current draft of the book I am working on, is based on an outline Dave Wolverton helped me put together in 2011. Dave teaches a week-long class on novel outlines. It was enormously informative and well worth the time and money, I think. Especially if the book sells!
PCarlson: Another question: how did you gain Baen's attention? (As for considering the manuscript.)
* Deluge5 has joined #write2publish
Brad_Torgersen: Strycher, undertaking a novel is Mount Everest, at least for me. I've tried without outlines, and just can't do it.
mrmeadors: That's exactly what I've been having trouble with--the transition between pantsing it with shorts and outlining for a longer work.
Deluge5: Hello everyone.
MartinShoemaker: How do you recognize a project that needs an outline?
KaryJ> Ditto on outlining vs. pantsing short stuff.
* Deluge7 has joined #write2publish
Rose1533: Hi, again, Dale.
Brad_Torgersen: @Martin: length, basically. Mike Resnick and I are doing a 30,000 word novella this year. I am sure we'll need an outline on that. Anything under 25,000 words and I can usually cruise on autopilot.
kyleaisteach: "Pantsing" is a good description of what my writing does to me...
PCarlson: LOL
mrmeadors: Ha!
thejuliechris: As long as you live alone Kyle...
Strycher: So, I'm assuming to have a master outline, and then do you do one for each chapter? I've found that when I start drowning I can outline the scene and move forward, but it's so time consuming! Doing that on a novel scale most be intense (even just keeping track of where you left these lists...)
* M_I_GOFF has joined #write2publish
Rose1533: I did an outline for my first book, but I have to admit, I don't remember really going back to refer to it.
thejuliechris: Do you worry that outlining will make the plot too predictable?
kyleaisteach: Brad, are you finding you need to modify your prose style for the longer work, or are you finding it similar to writing short fiction?
Brad_Torgersen: Yes, yes I do. And it's been tough figuring out when it's save to "go off the reservation" as it were. Ergo, when to break with the outline and follow inspiration, mid-novel.
mrmeadors: Good question
PCarlson: We are asking lots of questions! Good, and let's not go _too_ fast
MartinShoemaker: No battle plan survives contact with the enemy.
Rose1533: Brad, I'd say keep with it until you're ready to rewrite.
saweb22: The more outlining you do -- the less side trips you will take away from your planned story line
Brad_Torgersen: Kyle, with short fiction I do a lot of first-person. Single viewpoints. Very tight. Novels? More viewpoints, 3rd person, sometimes tight, but often not. Martin, yes.
thejuliechris: I like that line Martin
Brad_Torgersen: saweb, that's what killed 6 previous books, between 1994 and 2005.
PCarlson: (Repeated question, about your "in" with Baen, to see your manuscript?)
* nobu has joined #write2publish
Brad_Torgersen: I have a very wide open door with Baen. Yes. Not a sale, yet. The book has to speak for itself. But the runway is lit. I just have to land the plane.
thejuliechris: Welcoem nobu
saweb22: EGGHS - I'm a murder of books....:-(
Brad_Torgersen: IZZY! HUGZ!
mrmeadors: Sometimes I am concerned that when I write an outline, the story is "out of me."
Strycher: Annie!
nobu: the book need writing
Strycher: Bwhahaha
nobu: <-- am here to troll lolz or something
* kyleaisteach waves to nobu
Rose1533: True, my outline looks a lot like my first draft, but not much like the final published product.
kyleaisteach: (OK, it's scary... I just did the /me command completely automatically.)
Brad_Torgersen: Nobu is here to remind me the book's not done yet. She's been doing this since 2010. (g)
PCarlson: Heck, you can always modify the outline. (The best part of word processing apps)
* nobu: knows how kyle feels
mrmeadors: This whole IRC thing is giving me flashbacks
* thejuliechris gives Kyle a high five
nobu: 2010? is that when you went all stuck on a single book event on me? i feel old
thejuliechris: Geek never goes away completely
PCarlson: Our W2P critique group has been on AOL for more than 15 years. At this rate, we may outlast that company.
Rose1533: Yeah, scary, isn't it?
kyleaisteach: Totally wouldn't have thought I remembered the commands...
Brad_Torgersen: I need to put on some Cure. Then I'm all the way back to 1990.
nobu: I was 9 in 1990. grins.
thejuliechris: Thanks for that Nobu
kyleaisteach: feels old now. Thanks, Annie.
mrmeadors: Can't remember back that far...
Strycher: Speaking of word processing apps: We've had a lot of proponents of typewriters lately. What's your instrument/program of choice, Brad? Do you think it matters, or are you awesome all the time?
MartinShoemaker. Get off my lawn, you rotten kids!
Rose1533: Gad! You were born after I graduated from high school. I'm feeling old.
PCarlson: Anyone who's looking for a crit group: http://www.cuebon.com/ewriters/index.html
PCarlson: But for now, onward with Mr. Torgerson
saweb22: You've a Senior Citizen here --- BE KIND --- 61 this coming weekend
Rose1533: Happy Birthday, Saul.
saweb22: TY
thejuliechris: Happy Birthday Saul, do you want to feel older or younger...
saweb22: It depends on whether or not I'm writing
Brad_Torgersen: I have used Microsoft Word for the duration. No real trick to it, I guess. It's what I know, so I use it.
mrmeadors: How good are you with internet distraction? Do you have to get strict with yourself?
MartinShoemaker: Single doc file per chapter? Or per book? Or...?
Brad_Torgersen: I am (ahem) a complete Web addict. It's quite awful, really.
nobu: yeah, Brad. How is that internet fast going?
Rose1533: OH, LOL! Gad. I get distracted.
Brad_Torgersen: Annie knows.
mrmeadors: HA!
nobu: This isn't the internet, right? Totally doesn't count. *grin*
Brad_Torgersen: Martin: I use a single .doc file for every story and/or every book.
Rose1533: Me, too.
PCarlson: I use one Word doc per novel chapter, stitch them together for e-subs
thejuliechris: For everyone or each one?
Brad_Torgersen: Nobu, this may as well be dial-up. I am so in the wayback machine. (turns up The Cure...)
kyleaisteach: It's not ntalk. It's all good.
thejuliechris: This is WAY faster than dial-up BBS was...
Brad_Torgersen: juliechris: new file for each story, new file for each book.
Strycher: That makes sense, though, if you use waht you know you won't get distracted. I read an interview recently over at SFWA, and the person suggested keeping a record of productivity to determine the best palce and time to write. When/where do you find yourself being most productive?
Rose1533: When I started, no word processor could handle a file that big.
kyleaisteach: Yeah, all my lag has been self-induced by multitasking.
Amanda: Okay, I have to be responsible and get some words in. Have fun, y'all
Rose1533: Each chapter had its own file. Not anymore. Phew!
thejuliechris: I'm sitting here listening to Metallica, does that count in the way back machine?
Brad_Torgersen: MANDA! HUGZ!
Amanda: hugs, night all
PCarlson: That's why we picked IRC as an alternate for AOL. Highly versatile, low bandwidth, runs on any system or browser.
mrmeadors: night!
nobu: Night, Manda
Brad_Torgersen: juliechris, is it the black album?
|<-- Amanda has left quakenet (Quit: Page closed)
thejuliechris: Justice for all... Black album was 91/92
Brad_Torgersen: Now that *is* old school!
kyleaisteach: Back on topic, Brad, are you finding that working on a novel helps, hinders, or does not affect your short-fiction productivity?
Strycher: An excellent question.
mrmeadors: And can you work at both simultaneously?
Brad_Torgersen: I've had to train myself to work on both at the same time, mostly because I am having too much success with short fiction to take a long break for a book. It's been interesting and frustrating at the same time. I am not a very good "nibble' writer. I like to go at it in big fat gulps.
Rose1533: I did.
PCarlson: It's popular to bash multitasking, but I've jumped back and forth okay
thejuliechris: Do you structure your day to work on both for a certain amount of time, or just wing it?
mrmeadors: Do you find it hard to get writing time into your day with still having time for work and family?
Rose1533: Brad, do you ever get your ideas from dreams? I have found my dreams are a BIG source of stories or novel scenes.
Strycher: So, then, do you find it hard to qork on several projects at once? I hear of several people on the forum who claim to be writing 3 or 4 stories at the same time, but that seems difficult to me.
Brad_Torgersen: I have to wing it, my days are never as structured as I want them to be. Right now my goal is 1,000 words per day, 7,000 words per week. Minimum.
nobu: He beat my word count this week, even.
Brad_Torgersen: I don't think I could write more than 2 projects -- short or long -- at any given time. I am not a multitasker by nature. It's hard for me.
nobu: Well, last week. We'll see how he does this week.
nobu: winks
Brad_Torgersen: Rose: I can't say that I use my dreams much, most of my ideas are "waking" ideas.
Strycher: What was your words counts this week?
Rose1533: OK. Just wondering.
Brad_Torgersen: Nobu is my self-selected scold.
thejuliechris: scold = task master?
Brad_Torgersen: Rose, honestly, many ideas come to me while reading other stories, watching movies, or especially watching educational TV. The ideas tend to accrete.
Rose1533: Actually one of my shorts (which I've never looked into getting published) is SF rather than Fantasy (that's my book) and it came from a dream.
nobu: I like how you leave that open to who selected it. Ha.
Brad_Torgersen: LOL! I did do that, didn't I?
Strycher: So, when will you be legally changing your middle name to "freakin'"?
mrmeadors: LOL
Brad_Torgersen: Who, me, or Annie?
KaryJ: He may not have seen the relevant posts yet
MartinShoemaker: Oh, it's not nearly as funny if he has missed those posts!
Brad_Torgersen: ???
Strycher: Oh dear. Well, how many story tellers do we have here?
MartinShoemaker: Do a search on WotF forum for "freakin'"
Rose1533: So is the novel you're working on based on the short stories? Same characters or perhaps just the same world?
Strycher: Someone fill him in.
Brad_Torgersen: Y'all have one up on me. (scratches head)
KaryJ: He can check after, I think. Maybe we should stay on topic?
Strycher: Tina (Gower21) has name envy. That's the long and short of it.
nobu: Huh? I got too many names to change anything now
Strycher: Kary's probably right!
Brad_Torgersen: Rose, the novel is not connected to any short fiction at this time -- though I am doing sequels to stories published in Analog. One story in particular, called OUTBOUND, got me a readers choice award, and it's going to have many sequels. Which I shall then bundle into a book, in the fullness of time.
PCarlson: Quite a full future-history, in "Outbound."
PCarlson: May I swagger? Recently qualified for voting membership in SFWA.
Strycher: Sorry nobu that was at Brad. I shouldn't have veered off topic.
Brad_Torgersen: GO PAUL!
thejuliechris: Congrats Paul!
Brad_Torgersen: Yup, and agent Joshua Bilmes has specifically asked me to develop it. He liked that story very much.
Josie: wtg Paul and congrats:)
PCarlson: You are most welcome
MartinShoemaker: So, Brad, do you plan to use pseudonyms?
-->| s_c_baker has joined #write2publish
nobu: how is that going, Brad?
s_c_baker: Halloa. Sup?
M_I_GOFF: Sequels to Outbound? I can't wait ! ! !
Brad_Torgersen: Martin, I may use a pen name if I branch off into non-SF, non-Fantasy. My wife tells me I should try Romance or Erotica.
mrmeadors: Agreed, I enjoyed Outbound
thejuliechris: That is a strange jump...SF to erotica...
Brad_Torgersen: Jason, yup, I am working on a direct sequel now. It is called, of course, INBOUND.
KaryJ: Mumbles something about Heinlein
MartinShoemaker: I'm waiting for the Bullfrog sequel!
Brad_Torgersen: Indeed it is a strange jump. Have not made it yet, of course. Or maybe I will write SFrotica.
Strycher: Brad, if you cut into another genre will you query/include in your cover letter, your sf/f writing credits or start from scratch?
PCarlson: Julie, not so strange. A lot of 'new wave' and the 'dangerous visions' stuff was largely erotica
Brad_Torgersen: Martin, that too is coming.
nobu: I always start from scratch when doing new genre cover letters
saweb22: And the third book in the series will be entitled ---- "STUCK IN THE MIDDLE"
Brad_Torgersen: Strycher, probably. Not sure if that helps or hurts me? Then again, I will probably let Joshua Bilmes work it if I do find the time to go out-genre. Which may be awhile. still.
nobu: I don't think editors will care unless you are like a mega bestseller
PCarlson: Then again, 'shock value' is not nearly enough, in the 2010s. Gotta be excellent literature.
Rose1533: Is some of what you write fantasy rather than Sci-fi?
mrmeadors: At a RWA conference I went to last year SF erotica seemed to be catching on a bit... LOL haven't been able to make that jump myself...
nobu: Even then, Nora Roberts had to hide that she was JD Robb for a long time cause her publisher was worried it would hurt the Nora brand
Brad_Torgersen: I suspect Nobu is right, actually.
kyleaisteach: I sometimes include a line that I write other genres under a different name, but I doubt it helps (and may actually hinder, as it's admitting you're new).
s_c_baker: Slaps KaryJ around a bit with a large fishbot
Brad_Torgersen: My collaborator Mike Resnick is 100% against pen names, unless you're writing absolute bottom-of-the-barrel porn.
s_c_baker: Fishbot? Fishbot!? Lame. What was wrong with trouts?
Strycher: Hmmm, that's interesting. Not the response I suspected (from the room), but that does make sense.
KaryJ: ROFL
mrmeadors. That's good to know. I hear so much conflicting info about pen names... well, conflicting opinions
nobu: My pen names sell better than I do, for what that's worth
kyleaisteach: Yeah, my one pen name is outselling me at the moment, too.
Brad_Torgersen: Melanie, it's interesting, but the more I talk to the pros above me, the more conflicts I discover. Nobu can tell you all about that, too.
s_c_baker: I think pennames are a good way to keep genres/styles apart. e.g. Iain Banks vs Iain M Banks
KaryJ: Hangs her head. She writes political commentary and *gasp* gossip.
mrmeadors: LOL it gives me anxiety, not knowing what to do!
nobu: There are many paths. Depends on what your plan of attack is.
s_c_baker: It's clear they're the same person, but you know you're getting something different with the different names.
PCarlson: <-- no pen names yet. My opinion columns get half my friends mad at me, and my fiction, the other half.
Strycher: Kary, I don't think this crowd cares what else you write.
nobu: Long as you have a plan, are open to revising the plan, and stay in control of your career, seems like you'll be fine
Strycher: Though those gossip people might care if you tell them you write speculative stuff.
KaryJ: Well, yes, But my dissertation cmte says there are two things I can't be caught dead writing: 1) Genre Fiction, and 2) gossip
kyleaisteach: Sushi, you know you're a writer when you post an opinion piece about how badly you treated your ex, and your friends stop talking to the ex...
PCarlson: Kyle, the zings can get really really zingy
Brad_Torgersen: Easy, then. Write GENRE GOSSIP and make millions.
Strycher: Bwhahaha @ Nobu. "Plan of attack" You're like a writing samuri.
Rose1533: Not for a dissertation, no.
KaryJ: Takes notes. "So, Brad, you say you're into Erotice?"
nobu: Writing to be published and make money is a business. Sun Tzu applies.
PCarlson: So we can know nobu and defeat 'em 100 times?
Brad_Torgersen: If I were to write erotica, it would be one shade brighter than Penthouse Forum. (g)
Strycher: Is Genre Gossip what the tabloids publish?
KaryJ: lol
mrmeadors: Wasn't there a book published about that? The 'art of war for writers' or something like that?
Rose1533: For writers? Not that I know of, but The Art of War, yes. My husband has that book.
nobu: Probably. Law of large numbers. Many books on writing. I seem to recall one like that though
thejuliechris: So Brad, the lights would be on that the aureoles wouldn't be rosy?
PCarlson: There's some business guides with that theme, it was a big hit a few years back
mrmeadors: Oh, it's by James Scott Bell
Strycher: Alright, ladies and gents. Future Me will be angry if Present Me doesn't get sleep in preparation for the day job. Thanks for posting the invite Brad! Night all.
Brad_Torgersen: LOL LOL LOL
kyleaisteach: Of course, by this logic Machiavelli would apply to a writing career as well.
Brad_Torgersen: Bye, Strycher.
PCarlson: G'nite Srty
KaryJ: One of my Religious Studies profs - a rabbi - paid his way thru undergrad writing medieval erotics. *shrug* It paid the bills.
mrmeadors: The Prince of Writing. Very cool.
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s_c_baker: I think I'm going to have to vanish as well. I have a presentation to finish (i.e. start) by next Weds
Brad_Torgersen: Bye, SC!
nobu: Hey, Dawn (kat is Dawn, right?)
KaryJ: nighters
PCarlson: Hello Kats. (Where were you an hour ago?)
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katsincommand: Hi guys, yes, it's Dawn
kyleaisteach: Waves to katsincommand..
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katsincommand: Was putting the kids to bed.. They ganged up against us.
Rose1533: LOL!
PCarlson: One more promo, anyone who's looking for a critique group, we're meeting every week at Writing to Publish
PCarlson: http://www.cuebon.com/ewriters/index.html
Rose1533: On AOL.
saweb22: NEXT WEEK I'LL BE HERE ON TIME
PCarlson: In this room and/or our long-time one at AOL
Rose1533: Oh that's true.
katsincommand: Was this just a chat or a themed discussion?
MartinShoemaker: katsincommand, as a friend once said: when the number of kids > 3, you have to switch from Man-to-Man to Zone Defense.
katsincommand: lol that's why we're stopping at 2
Rose1533: Guest speaker, Kats
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nobu: That's why I stopped at 0 kids
mrmeadors: LOL
PCarlson: We normally do critiques, taking turns. This evening we are grilling our guest speaker, Mr. Torgerson
thejuliechris: Thinks that if more geeks showed up we might be able to push harder to use IRC all the time...
nobu: Messed up and got a cat though.
thejuliechris.: whistles innocently.
katsincommand: lol
Brad_Torgersen: (waves from the iron spit, with apple in mouth)
MartinShoemaker: That's Mr. Freakin' Torgersen!
PCarlson: On January 30th we are hosting author Daniel Keys Moran. Author of many SF novels.
nobu: So Brad, how will it feel to steal the Campbell from me? (j/k)
MartinShoemaker: SAY WHAT?!?!?!
thejuliechris: grabs the basting brush
Brad_Torgersen: Nobu, kids are awesome, but you do have to give up being a kid (a little bit) when you have 'em. (g)
MartinShoemaker: "Flowers for Algernon", right?
thejuliechris: So Brad...what do you see as the key to your success?
nobu: looks at comic books and videogames
nobu: Not happening, sorry
Rose1533: Are you kidding? I'm still a kid, too.
Brad_Torgersen: Nobu, we'd first have to pretend that I may actually win, which I doubt very much.
katsincommand: Who was the guest speaker?
thejuliechris: I think more parents should stay like kids...kids would have more fun.
mrmeadors: Agreed.
nobu: Also, no monies. No monies=no kids. I'm not evil, just mean.
Rose1533: OK, you have to be adult some of the time.
KaryJ: Hangs a Guest Speaker sign around Brad's neck
Brad_Torgersen: I AM TEH GUEST SPEEKAR!
katsincommand: Oh man and I missed it.
nobu: I dunno, Brad. Seriously though, I think you have a shot. Especially if you'd get that novel done and sold...
Brad_Torgersen: kats, I can always be had at the WOTF forum.
Rose1533: We don't have any money either. None or rather very little that isn't already going to pay bills.
thejuliechris: WOTF = ?
Brad_Torgersen: Annie, I am wagering someone comes along and poaches it, just like Lev Grossman did.
Rose1533: Wish my book would sell. That would help.
kyleaisteach: WotF = Writers of the Future.
PCarlson: The legacy of L Ron Hubbard, and a generous one
Brad_Torgersen: WOTF = pure awesome. (Says the biased winner and paid henchman of the Contest)
thejuliechris: The L Ron Hubbard thing?
MartinShoemaker: Yes, Brad, your work is on a rapid ascent. Outbound was good, but you've gotten much better.
Brad_Torgersen: Thanks, Martin!
mrmeadors: Kids=less writing time. But more scope for the imagination.
PCarlson: Not the religious part, Hubbard was a big SF author in his day
Rose1533: Yes he was.
nobu: WotF=I have no future
thejuliechris: Won't comment on the association
MartinShoemaker: Now if only you would finish Bullfrog...
thejuliechris: Is that primarily SF?
KaryJ: Fantasy, too, and they say horror, but I've never seen any win.
PCarlson: <-- I'm probably the only one in my religion, and certainly the only truck driver, currently being published in SF monthlies. (A long and boring story, in itself.)
MartinShoemaker: Fantasy/SF. GREAT opportunity, no entry fees. Great crowd on the forum, too. Half of whom are here tonight.
nobu: Yeah, it is a great opportunity
thejuliechris: I'm a non-specific monotheist.
nobu: You can ignore my bitter ravings
Rose1533: Oh cool! So does it have to be new writing that wins, or can something that's been out there (and not well known) win?
KaryJ: New writing
thejuliechris: Bitter ravings are often the most entertaining
katsincommand: g'night folks... will catch you next time
Rose1533: Shucks.
PCarlson: The Campbell is specifically for new authors
Brad_Torgersen: Paul, did I ever tell you I love your avatar at the (now dead) Analog forum?
PCarlson: The roaring red truck
nobu: Has to be unpublished
KaryJ: nd from amateurs - no more than 3 pro-market shorts or one novel
PCarlson: The roaring red truck
nobu. And if you have had more than 4 SFWA-qualifying stories published, you can't submit. MartinShoemaker: And only open to new authors (within specific limits).
Josie: Night Katsin
nobu: Hence my bitterness
kyleaisteach: Night, Kats
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Rose1533: Well, that's it. One novel.
nobu: Or more than one Novella
thejuliechris: is away: I'm going to head out too!
Rose1533: 130k words. I'd say that
thejuliechris: Night all
kyleaisteach: Night, juliechris
nobu: But the catch is SFWA qualifying. So you can sell to non-SFWA markets or self-pub and still qualify
PCarlson: Big gathering this evening. Awesome! At least 20 have participated.
nobu: Brad rallied the troops
thejuliechris: Brad needs to come each week!
Brad_Torgersen: I do hope it's been worth their time. I actually didn't say a whole lot.
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kyleaisteach: waves to Alex
PCarlson: Biggest crowd we ever had was in hosting Tom Clancy. (Piers Anthony drew many, as well.)
AlexJKane: Kyle! Hello.
KaryJ: What you did say was illuminating, though.
kyleaisteach: Technically, Brad, you didn't *say* anything at all...
Brad_Torgersen: Yuk yuk yuk. Tom Clancy? For reals?
KaryJ: And Piers Anthony?? Where to we sign up for notification?
AlexJKane: Am I late to the party? Did I miss all the seekrits?
mrmeadors: You did...
kyleaisteach: Tom Clancy. Now there's a writer who does his research.
PCarlson: Yes, and many other Big Names, thanks to our brash corps of Inviters.
Rose1533: Ooo! I wasn't around back then. Dad gum! Mark (my husband) would love Tom Clancy and I'd love Piers Anthony!
Brad_Torgersen: You missed it all. Nobu, get your bra back on. Where are my shorts? Damn!
mrmeadors: LOL
MartinShoemaker: Brad told us who's gonna win the Hugo!
AlexJKane: lol
nobu: Yep. Sorry Alex.
PCarlson: I will post this session on the same web page with Clancy's, when I get time.
PCarlson: http://www.cuebon.com/ewriters/archive/guests.html
Rose1533: I want to see Anthony's.
Deluge7: Piers Anthony used the screen name of Docks123.
KaryJ: I guess his docks were in a row
Brad_Torgersen: LOL
kyleaisteach: slaps his knee.
nobu: winces
Rose1533: Bedtime here.
kyleaisteach: G'night, Rose!
Brad_Torgersen: G'night.
PCarlson: That was the only time AOL's techies set up a large 'two tier' meeting room, for us to host Anthony.
Rose1533: Night, everyone. Thanks for speaking to us, Brad!
Brad_Torgersen: Seriously, I need to cut in 10 minutes too. Anyone got any other questions?
Brad_Torgersen: Bye, Rose!
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KaryJ: Yes, ... Did you ever answer how you approached Baen?
kyleaisteach: Brad, yes, one more question. How many rejects did you collect from Analog before Stan Schmidt started buying your stuff, and have those rejects gone on to sell elsewhere?
nobu: lolz
PCarlson: I have some novellas and such, in need of a home, and they're too long for my usual venues. Some are not -gasp!- politically correct, and have ruffled a feather or two. Nothing awful, really.
Brad_Torgersen: Kary, I basically sent in a novel "package" composed of 3 chapters, a cover letter, and an outline. All of which I learned to produce at the first workshop where I met Ms. Nobu. Anyway, Baen sent back a letter saying they wanted to see the full, and since then I've met Toni Weisskopf -- who has been hearing good things about me for awhile, thanks to my buddy and Baen bestseller Larry Correia.
KaryJ: Cool, thanks.
MartinShoemaker: Brad, did Baen notice you before or after WotF?
nobu: If only you had the full *grin* Well, again.
Brad_Torgersen: Kary, I was rejected at least 3 or 4 dozen times by Stan, before he bought OUTBOUND. So it's a lesson in persistence.
PCarlson: Very good, Brad!!!!!
nobu: Pokes Brad
mrmeadors: That is cool.
PCarlson: They probably reject 99.9% of Analog submissions, out of hand.
KaryJ. Dozens? Ok, now I understand what Jay Lake means by "psychotic persistence."
PCarlson. Same here, Stan bounces probably 90% of my stories. But he is always very polite.
mrmeadors. Yes, exactly
nobu: I don't know about out of hand. The truth is, most writers suck. You practice, you get better, you persist, you get through eventually.
Brad_Torgersen: Martin, I think mostly after. What really did it was WorldCon in Reno. Toni Weisskopf and I met, and then I later learned she'd chatted up my editor with Analog, Dr. Schmidt. Kaboom. Best free press in the universe, for me anyway.
PCarlson: Cool. I did not speak with Toni.
MartinShoemaker: So Analog was maybe a bigger factor than WotF?
PCarlson: Juliette Wade and I had lunch with Stan and his wife Joyce. I'd have attended the Con if that's the only thing I did.
Brad_Torgersen: Stan bounces me about 50% lately, though I'm slow to send new material these days due to finishing the book.
kyleaisteach: Juliette Wade is great.
PCarlson: Just sent him a fourth robot-trucker story, will be a while until I hear anything back. But at least he's familiar with the series, by now.
Brad_Torgersen: Martin, oh yes, absolutely. WOTF is a huge break-in, but many WOTF winners vanish and never sell again. Me getting OUTBOUND into Analog, and then getting the Readers Choice award, and THEN getting the cover in December... well, it's been a hell of a "coming out" party for me.
mrmeadors: Yes, and I think that is the key--to keep appearing
Brad_Torgersen: Paul, yeah, he seems snowed under these days. Ah well. Patience is a virtue. I think Yoda said that. (g)
KaryJ: I wonder what's up with the vanishing?
MartinShoemaker: PCarlson, he probably saw "Space Truckers" and decided the genre would never exceed that!
nobu: which is why he's gonna steal my Campbell
MartinShoemaker: No Analog reports on Duotrope since 12/19. "Snowed under" is right!
mrmeadors: Phew
Brad_Torgersen: No, some quasi-literary frou frou writer will poach it. I promise. You watch.
mrmeadors: I'm betting that will be the case
PCarlson: LOL Martin
mrmeadors: Bastards
nobu: We'll see. I can mark 2012 as the year I became ineligible for TWO awards. There should be an award for that.
KaryJ: What qualifies as quasi literary frou frou?
Brad_Torgersen: Kary: anything NOT published in Analog! (grins at Paul)
KaryJ: LOL
kyleaisteach: Holiday season usually produces a slowdown most places, especially when the New Years resolution stories slam them in early January.
mrmeadors: Eek hadn't thought of that Kyle
kyleaisteach: nobu, it's my last year of Campbell eligibility as well. We should have a "nope, didn't get it, and never will" party at ChiCon.
PCarlson: I found out from John DeChancie that "Space Truckers" was based on a novel is his. So loosely -- and poorly -- that he cashed the check then had them remove his name from the credits.
MartinShoemaker: PCarlson: really? I'll look for it. Jokes aside, I love that movie. It is what it is, and proudly so.
PCarlson: Hey, as a trucker, the science was horrid BUT they got the lifestyle down perfectly
AlexJKane: Does Campbell eligibility begin with the first SFWA-pro sale? Or first sale as pro rates?
nobu: I don't know, Alex. My first pro sale was SFWA, so...
kyleaisteach: First sale at 3 cents a word, actually. They didn't update the rules when SFWA changed the definition of pro rates.
AlexJKane: Ah.
kyleaisteach: But I'm in the same boat as Annie. My first paid sale was a SFWA-qualifying market.
KaryJ: So there's a clock that starts ticking with one's fiorst pro sale, yes? So one might want to haord stories until you have a bajillion to circulate all at once?
nobu: But hey, self-published work can be nominated for the Hugos, which was something new I learned this year
nobu: Kary, that's a terrible way to run a career
KaryJ: Why?
kyleaisteach: And I timed it badly. My first sale hit newsstands at the end of 2010, so I had only one short story to show for myself that first year.
Brad_Torgersen: My clock officially began in 2010 with the *publication* of Writers of the Future. It ends this year.
nobu: Only a handful of people can win WotF each year and only one can win the Campbell (and I don't think that one even pays you)
MartinShoemaker: How long is that Campbell clock? And is that confirmed: a non-SFWA market counts?
kyleaisteach: Martin, 2 calendar years. So Annie and I were eligible in 2011 for the 2010 sales, and will be again in 2012, and then that's it.
nobu: Kyle- mine hit in December 2010
nobu: Talk about bad timing. And three of the sales I made this year haven't even come out yet. Err, last year. I keep hoping it is still 2011.
Brad_Torgersen: Sadly, the Campbell does not pay. Nor the Hugo. Nor the Nebula. But the Analog AnLab pays! Which is why I told Eric James Stone I wanted the AnLab more than the Nebula. He disagreed. And we both got our wish last year.
nobu: Haha. I'd rather have AnLab too
mrmeadors: Well, good for you both!
nobu: Though Nebula does look nice on a book cover if you are writing in genre.
KaryJ: Indeed
mrmeadors LOL yes it does
PCarlson: I'm too much of a plodder to win the AnLab. Just keeping the series going will be fine with me.
Brad_Torgersen: Paul, I dunno, I think so much just depends on the right story for the right crowd.
Brad_Torgersen: Moreover, I greatly esteem Analog's readers. A very sharp, very savvy bunch. I am humbled they picked my first story ever.
MartinShoemaker: And don't forget Bullfrog!
nobu: Yesh. Write write write, Brad.
mrmeadors: LOL
nobu: Kris would hit you with SOOOO many napkins
nobu: I know your real reason for avoiding the workshop this year
Brad_Torgersen: Martin, no we shall not forget Bullfrog.
PCarlson: Brad, did you see that Facebook post of mine? The actual Earth Station for sale? In the Carmel Valley
Brad_Torgersen: Paul, which one?
KaryJ: *the* Earth Station
Brad_Torgersen: Annie, Kris is *still* hitting me with napkins! In my sleep! PTSD! And yes (ahem) how convenient to be broke.
KaryJ: Ginormous satellite dish and a wall of backup generators
nobu: I'm super broke and I'm going.
PCarlson: http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Bomb-Proof-Space-Station-For-Sale-136685978.html
nobu: Thank god for ebook sales. Wants a Space Station. Would love it and pet it and take it for walks around Jupiter.
Brad_Torgersen: I could go, but then my daughter doesn't get to go to school. (shrug)
KaryJ: I want the missile silo no zombies house in the Adirondacks.
PCarlson: Turns out, one of my FB buddies lives a couple of miles from the Earth Station, as does a former classmate of mine. Small world indeed
Brad_Torgersen: Okey dokey, it *is* late and I must be going. Paul, it's been a pleasure.
mrmeadors: mee too..will be trounced by 9 year old in AM
KaryJ: this one, http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/the-perfect-house-for-surviving-a-zombie-apocalyps
kyleaisteach: About two orders of magnitude out of my price range, I'm afraid...
kyleaisteach: Good night, Brad.
KaryJ: Nighters
nobu: Night, Brad. Gimme that book. It can be my non-award consolation prize. Go write!
kyleaisteach: It's been a pleasure.
Brad_Torgersen: Good night, all!
mrmeadors: Thanks
MartinShoemaker: Goodnight Brad Freakin' Torgersen!
AlexJKane: Good night, Brad!
PCarlson: Thanks, Brad!!!!!! Thanks so much for attending, everyone.
AlexJKane: Looking forward to the next story, as always.
mrmeadors: Good night all!!
Josie: Good Night mrmeadors
KaryJ: I'm poofing too. Thanks, everyone.
MartinShoemaker: The goats are calling. Naa-a-a-a-aaah...
nobu: (hey, Alex... write that review already. poke poke)
Josie: Good night Brad and everyone and the best of luck to you Brad:)
kyleaisteach: Night, Kary
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nobu: I should go too now that I can't troll Brad anymore
KaryJ: goes >POOF<
AlexJKane: lol, I'll get on that real soon. I promise. I've been slacking all winter break.|<--KaryJ has left quakenet (Quit: Page closed)
kyleaisteach: night, nobu
nobu_Skyyyyyyyyyrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiimmmmmm
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kyleaisteach: Well, it was really great to meet all of you here.
PCarlson I need to run, time to go pick up my better half from work
kyleaisteach: I had no idea these things were happening. Thank you to those of you who arranged it.
PCarlson: We try
kyleaisteach: I'm going to vanish in a shower of sparks myself, but don't hesitate to ping me about future events.
PCarlson: Not often enough, more in 2012 is our aim
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PCarlson: Will do!
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1/09/12 20:15:28 Closing "Chat Log 1-9-12"


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