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Juliette is an author and linguist who speaks several languages.
12/1/08 18:39:46 Opening "Chat Log 12-1-08"
JulietteAllayo: Hey, am I in?
cuebon4: You are IN
W2PSushi: I am here twice.
JulietteAllayo: Clones of pc. You must get a lot of deliveries done like that.
JulietteAllayo: I keep thinking I might see you on the roads.
W2PSushi: My big CDS truck is very conspicuous.
JulietteAllayo: CDS? Is that the label on the side?
W2PSushi: I was in Fremont/Milpitas twice today.
JulietteAllayo: The thing with me is I rarely go anywhere.
W2PSushi: White bobtail truck with blue letters. A type of big 'straight' truck.
JulietteAllayo: Bobtail sounds cute. Like a Japanese cat.
W2PSushi: You travel the universe in your mind.
JulietteAllayo: Oh, I'm telling you! And other universes too.
JulietteAllayo: Do you do a lot of Japanese stuff? Like sushi?
W2PSushi: I used to deliver seafood and sushi fixin's to a lot of sushi bars. For about 120 miles around, hence the handle.
JulietteAllayo: How funny! Direct from the port of Oakland?
W2PSushi: More like the Oakland Airport. Some came through the port, I suppose.
JulietteAllayo: I'm just thinking ocean water, that's all.
W2PSushi: Salinas veggie farms, local fishermen, trucks from Seattle, etc.
JulietteAllayo: Stuff needs to travel.
W2PSushi: For that much variety, yes. But freshness is key so they'll pay for air freight.
JulietteAllayo: My hubby used to use truckers when he worked for a catalog company, to save on postage. Trucking to the large postal facilities.
W2PSushi: I've done that also.
JulietteAllayo: So I guess you've seen those mega-facilities. They always blow my mind. USPS handles 100 times more in a day than Fed Ex handles in a year, or so I'm told.
W2PSushi: Huge places.
JulietteAllayo: I see we have some other chatters here.
W2PSushi: I love meeting the airplanes "direct" at the airports. Don't bump the wing!
JulietteAllayo: I should tell you that I'm utterly clear for about a half-hour, but then bedtime for kids will make this a little hairy.
W2PSushi: Hello Josie and Adam.
JulietteAllayo: I'm the one in the spotlight here, yet I can't seem to stop typing. It must be the compulsive writing thing.
W2PSushi: Micki, Char, Cara, Satin. :-)
Mallie1025: Hi sorry so late---forgot where I put this room.
CKRelax: Evening, all.
W2PSushi: Ready to begin?
Mallie1025: Hi relax--that's what I'd like to do!!
W2PSushi: Juliette Wade is our guest this evening. She is a professional author and a mom.
JulietteAllayo: Hello, everyone!
W2PSushi: She also has degrees in Linguistics, Anthropology and Japanese.
JulietteAllayo: I studied a lot.
W2PSushi: Also she has a fascinating blog.
JulietteAllayo: I'd love to see you there!
JulietteAllayo: I love to talk about how my degrees apply to science fiction and fantasy, so that's mostly what the blog is about.
W2PSushi: This will be an informal session.
JulietteAllayo: I actually use a lot of what I studied in my writing.
W2PSushi: Juliette has begun her presentation.
Mallie1025: What is speculative fiction?-btw--nice blog
JulietteAllayo: Thanks. You're asking what speculative fiction is? I guess it's the combination of fantasy and science fiction.
CKRelax: Are you a fan of Doris Lessing and her sci fi?
JulietteAllayo: I admit I haven't read it, though I know of her.
JulietteAllayo: I'd have to say my favorite sci fi author is Ursula LeGuin. She really inspires me.
Mallie1025: Thanks--I didn't know that--about speculative fiction.
JulietteAllayo: I also like C.S. Friedman.
CKRelax: Good to know.
MyWishforyou2: Sorry I'm late. Hi to all.
JulietteAllayo: Gardner Dozois remarked on the forums that the term speculative fiction is actually not new, but that it doesn't seem to have gained much traction. Which is a shame, because it's nice to have an umbrella term.
JulietteAllayo: Folks, you'll have to forgive me if I don't know all the chat slang. What's ty?
CKRelax: thank you
JulietteAllayo: Well then ty
Mallie1025: I can't imagine mixing fantasy with true sci-fi--Is that what Adam's book is, Paul? And that's about all I know. lol
JulietteAllayo: I think the boundaries of fantasy and science fiction are not as clear as a lot of people think. My own work (as yet unpublished) is kind of one foot in fantasy and one in sci fi.
Mallie1025: that's grin--
Satin Puzzle: lol Hi Micki
W2PSushi: Adam's novel is what I would call "soft science fiction." Or "sci-fi" -- not fantasy and not "hard" SF
Mallie1025: Can you give us a title of this mixture? I read both but never found one that was both.
JulietteAllayo: I don't have a genre name for it.
Mallie1025: Hi Jo and Josie.
Rose1533: Do you read fantasy as well as sci-fi?
JulietteAllayo: Yes, I certainly do.
Satin Puzzle: I think of most time travel stories as speculative.
JulietteAllayo: What I did was take a fantasy premise and try to render it with socio-psychological and linguistic accuracy. I also write fantasy related to Japan.
Rose1533: Who's your favorite fantasy author?
JulietteAllayo: Probably Patricia McKillip. I love The Changeling Sea.
CKRelax: I found my fantasy is harder to outline than drama or comedy. The central idea is strong but the playing out of the story is real work!
Mallie1025: No, I meant a book that has both genres mixed into it.
JulietteAllayo: Mallie, probably anything by Anne McCaffrey.
Rose1533: That's one I've not heard of.
JulietteAllayo: Yeah, there's a lot of work that goes into writing. I'm not sure which is harder, fantasy or science fiction. There's a ton of world building for both.
Mallie1025: Oh!! I get it--I read all her books--love the talking dragons--ok thanks.
W2PSushi: True, McCaffrey's Pern books are recognized as a mixture. Dragons but with a scientific aspect.
Rose1533: I've read McKiernan.
JulietteAllayo: And I can't write a thing until I get all the world stuff pinned down. I also think prose style is related to the distinction between genres.
Satin Puzzle: That's interesting.
CKRelax: That makes sense.
Rose1533: I find my world-building evolves as I get further and further into my book.
JulietteAllayo: My prose is often described as fantasy-like, but my Analog story, Let the Word Take Me, is hard linguistic science fiction.
JulietteAllayo: Absolutely, it evolves. That's why I have to write books twice.
W2PSushi: Rose's fantasy 'world' is very detailed.
Rose1533: Yeah, I have to rewrite sections when I make rule changes.
JulietteAllayo: I get enough tied down to start, and then dig deeper in as I go, and by the end of it I realize how shallow the beginning was, and I start over.
JulietteAllayo: Rule changes, and also character changes. I often will give characters a backstory that is very appropriate to one of their central cultural issues. Culture is big for me.
CKRelax: Do you rewrite right away or do you stick pages in a drawer and pull them out later to see how they read?
Mallie1025: And it adds interest to the characters.
JulietteAllayo: I try to rewrite a scene or chapter right away, and then also later.
CKRelax: ok ty
Rose1533: Since your fantasy is based on Japan, do you like Anime?
JulietteAllayo: Definitely, and I really believe in demonstrating the aspects of a world rather than having to explain them.
JulietteAllayo: I love Studio Ghibli. But I'm not an Anime buff per se.
Mallie1025: It's intimidating to face rewriting a whole book--easier to do it as you go with a final overall rewrite.
JulietteAllayo: When I was teaching Japanese I used Totoro a lot in class.
Rose1533: Love it? Love it!
W2PSushi: Let's keep the questions more than 5 seconds apart, eh?
Rose1533: Troll in Japanese.
W2PSushi: Juliette is a fast learner and yet a chat-room newbie.
JulietteAllayo: Yeah, Miyazaki is cool. But I find that his style isn't what I'd call typical Anime, because the later anime is more urban, and his stuff is all very environmentally aware and sensitive.
Mallie1025: She's doing great!!
JulietteAllayo: Totoro isn't exactly troll. The world troll appears in the movie, and it's to-ro-ru.
JulietteAllayo: Aw thanks. Luckily I can touch type.
CKRelax: Well done!
JulietteAllayo: That's thanks to my mom who got me in a class when I was 12. I think I'm going to have to teach my son soon. He's only 5. But already doing Bionicle video games and creating Spore creatures.
Mallie1025: I used to be able to type correctly--now I hunt and peck and make typos.
JulietteAllayo: Well, we all make typos.
CKRelax: I am typo literate.
JulietteAllayo: I can't use a typewriter, because I'm too used to having the backspace bar.
Mallie1025: None as well as me. lol
JulietteAllayo: I have a great t-shirt my friend gave me that reads, "Bad Grammar makes me [sic]."
LGVernon: I'm on my laptop, tonight--which is an instant typo-maker.
Satin Puzzle: I like that.
LGVernon: Too small for my ham hands.
JulietteAllayo: My pet peeve is those little squiggly underlines in the Word programs that try to tell me what to do.
W2PSushi: You can turn those off.
JulietteAllayo: I do!!
JulietteAllayo: I just got a new computer though.
Rose1533: LOL! Isn't that the truth!
JulietteAllayo: Which is great, but I had to go through the whole thing again.
W2PSushi: I leave 'em but customize their function a bit.
Rose1533: Even when you KNOW you're right, Word tries to tell you you're wrong.
Mallie1025: I am going to kill that yellow pad/paper clip thing on MSWord one of these days.
LGVernon: So do I, Paul--I love being able to customize my word processor--whichever I'm using.
JulietteAllayo: I have to laugh when I'm doing spell check on my manuscripts. I have to add things to my dictionary like "Melumalai" and "Gariniya."
Rose1533: Yeah, all my character names.
JulietteAllayo: One of the things I always try to do is make the names and places in my worlds conform to a single phonological system.
Rose1533: And their possessives, too!
LGVernon: Juliette, I once wrote a novel that had three different and distinct dialects in it---my Word program is brilliant, now.
JulietteAllayo: So I try to design the language with internal consistency even if I never have to write a whole sentence in it.
JulietteAllayo: Cool, LGVernon! I've had Mike Flynn commenting on my blog recently, and it looks like he's got some awesome stuff on dialects in his work as well.
W2PSushi: Juliette, I've debated using foreign languages in stories, a lot.
LGVernon: Consistency is the key, I think.
W2PSushi: Like, how much is okay? Whole paragraphs, or speeches? Or just a word or three?
JulietteAllayo: That's what I call the "translation problem." It has to do with how you want your protagonist POV to come across. (Point of View.)
LGVernon: That's what's great about a 'learning' WP thesaurus. Just add your dialect to it.
JulietteAllayo: The more of the actual language you put in, the more the foreignness of it will impact on the reader.
W2PSushi: Like Gaelic or Spanish.
Mallie1025: I like having the different languages, but hate it when the author gives no clue as to what the word means.
Rose1533: Yeah, we know what POV is.
JulietteAllayo: So if you've got a protagonist who is struggling and not understanding, then putting some in is fine.
W2PSushi: <-- a real live PRO writer.
Mallie1025: WP? Word Perfect?
JulietteAllayo: Thanks, Rose. I still remember when I didn't know...
Rose1533: In the military, it means privately owned vehicle. As opposed to government owned.
JulietteAllayo: But if you want people to feel like they're on the inside, then using less is probably the best.
W2PSushi: Been reading an SF novel by a fellow Yard Dog Press author, called The Monitor the Miners and the Shree, with many single words/terms in the weird Shree language.
Mallie1025: Some of us know what POV is, Rose --lol
JulietteAllayo: Translating it is good.
W2PSushi: The protagonist learns it, as best she can make the sounds.
JulietteAllayo: I think it's important to be consistent. If your protag is learning, then more and more should end up translated into its meaning.
LGVernon: Word processing, in this context, Micki.
JulietteAllayo: Just to show you an alternative approach to translation problems, my fantasy novel I'm working on has a world in which people of different countries and eras can all understand each other, but their speech style becomes rendered in the style of the books they read most recently. So like the Renaissance Italian guy speaks in iambic pentameter, and is very concerned with sin, because he's influenced by Dante's Inferno.
W2PSushi: Good thing that Gangsta Rap artists do not write books. . .
Mallie1025: Oh--thanks, LG.
JulietteAllayo: Well, they might write them for their own audiences.
W2PSushi: LOL. More of an attitude thing.
JulietteAllayo: Sure. I have a short (ish) story out now that deals with wolf aliens...
W2PSushi: Dale/Deluge here just wrote a long conversation with a Dragoness who lives under Lake Michigan. An interesting character with odd speech patterns.
Satin Puzzle: Do you emphasize his iambic beats?
JulietteAllayo: I don't emphasize them. I don't want it to sound all "tumpty tumpty um" but like actual dialog.
Satin Puzzle: Like Rocky and Bullwinkle?
W2PSushi: Wolf aliens, reminds me of the Tines in one Vernor Vinge novel.
JulietteAllayo: "The Realm of Words obeys the Keeper's Law."
W2PSushi: Many catlike aliens, few canine ones.
JulietteAllayo: Yes indeed. But I find most people don't push their species-analogs far enough into the social arena.
Mallie1025: I love wolves in any form, even werewolves.
JulietteAllayo: I've heard of that Vinge novel. Trying not to read it until my story is published.
JulietteAllayo: Well, I read up on them a lot. I needed a group in which social status was very important, because I was doing a story that dealt with status language.
W2PSushi: I take the opposite tack, and read every 'similar' novel. Usually finding out there are few such around.
Satin Puzzle: I stick to nonfiction.
JulietteAllayo: Well, it's good to see the clichés and avoid them.
W2PSushi: I ended up chatting about it with Vinge and Larry Niven, a while back.
JulietteAllayo: Cool, PC
JulietteAllayo: I did a little edit on that story where I changed my character's attitude about humans wearing clothes. Instead of just thinking they were frivolous, he wondered why people were dragging their high-quality wall hangings through the mud.
Mallie1025: Jo, I didn't know that--I do too, except for short fiction.
W2PSushi: LOL. Like a man laying his coat in a mud puddle?
Mallie1025: That's funny, Juliette.
JulietteAllayo: Just putting a little specific cultural value on cloth.
W2PSushi: Or a coke dealer lighting up with a $100 bill?
JulietteAllayo: It changed the whole feel of the thing.
JulietteAllayo: Well, in my world, cloth is harder to come by than animal skins, but animal skins are considered to be the coverings of the poor. So you're supposed to tough it out mostly.
Satin Puzzle: I've used color that way. Status by the color they wear.
JulietteAllayo: It's great if you can background it to the main story.
Rose1533: Indeed, in history, color is used that way. Red and purple were the colors of royalty.
JulietteAllayo: Sure. In my Varin world, which has seven castes, each caste has a different mark and some are by color. Each caste also has a different culture and set of values, and each caste also believes it's the best/most important one. Except the lowest.
Satin Puzzle: Ah sad.
JulietteAllayo: Well, therein lies the story, right?
Satin Puzzle: yep
MontanaDan19: Sounds like present day earth actually.
JulietteAllayo: The lowest group is actually more separate than the others, with a separate religion, and as the story goes on, you find out why.
Rose1533: Reminds me of the original Star Trek series--Let That Be Your Last Battlefield.
JulietteAllayo: I also try to have people in the castes not approach their values the same way. Some accept them, some resent them, some embrace them, some rebel against them, etc.
W2PSushi: The two Frank Gorshins?
Rose1533: Only one was Frank Gorshin.
JulietteAllayo: I'm not familiar with that one. Those of you who have read my story will probably notice that I was inspired by TNG's "Darmok."
Rose1533: He was the higher class with the white on the opposite side as the other actor (the lower class).
JulietteAllayo: Oh I know that one.
Satin Puzzle: Great episode.
W2PSushi: "Darmok" is my second-favorite TNG episode.
Rose1533: First one I ever saw, and it turned me off for several years. Good message, but still one of my least favorites.
JulietteAllayo: I hate to say this, but I'm going to have to bow out soon. My family wants dessert and bedtime with me (hubby, and the kids, 5 and 3). We can talk about the mystery of how I get anything done another time.
Rose1533: LOL! I hear you!
JulietteAllayo: You too?
Satin Puzzle: Appreciate your sharing.
Rose1533: My daughter is 13, going on 14 and she is a hand-full!
Mallie1025: I hear that, Juliette--it was wonderful meeting you
JulietteAllayo: Let's just say I really appreciate preschool.
Satin Puzzle: lol
JulietteAllayo: Well, great to meet you all as well.
Rose1533: She has Asperger's Syndrome.
JulietteAllayo: Ah, wow. I've read a bit on that.
W2PSushi: Tell them a full hour next time. The world needs you.
JulietteAllayo: Sure, but it depends on where the family is! Can anybody do mornings?
MyWishforyou2: Awesome presentation Juliette.
JulietteAllayo: Aw. Well, I love to talk.
Rose1533: Yes, great.
JulietteAllayo: Guys, do come check out my blog.
Satin Puzzle: I want to hear a tape of your telling a five and three year old. lol
Rose1533: BTW, I write fantasy, too, in case you hadn't guessed. BTW=by the way.
JulietteAllayo: I actually am about to run a world building workshop there. This time it will be limited to five people, but it should be a lot of fun.
MontanaDan19: What's the address, Juliette?
JulietteAllayo: I'd actually love to hear more specifics of people's work, because I love specifics.
MontanaDan19: thank you
Mallie1025: I was there, Juliette--very nice.
JulietteAllayo: Pass it on to your friends.
Mallie1025: Goodnight to all--stay safe.
Satin Puzzle: Goodnight.
JulietteAllayo: Well it's better than thinking all that stuff in my own head where it does no one any good.
JulietteAllayo: Thanks, all. Let's do this again.
Satin Puzzle: please
JulietteAllayo: Thanks also to you especially, PC for inviting me.
Satin Puzzle: I thought things I hadn't for a while.
Mallie1025: Love to have you back.
W2PSushi: You are most welcome.
JulietteAllayo: Sorry to run. (bows) Bye!
Satin Puzzle: Bye
MyWishforyou2: Night Juliette.
Satin Puzzle: My first thought was....I wish I could type that fast.
Rose1533: Me, too. I'm right-handed and left-eye dominant. I think that screws up my typing.
Satin Puzzle: Could be. I'm just slow. I can't work on my SF right now, but I've saved her site.
Rose1533: So have I.
Satin Puzzle: World building is major, and would take my head only there.
Rose1533: Just had 18 people at my house for Thanksgiving. I'm still recuperating!
Satin Puzzle: I'm still full..
Rose1533: I'm still eating leftovers.
Satin Puzzle: lol Me too.
Rose1533: And probably will for another couple of weeks!
Satin Puzzle: I'll have to starve it back off after it's all over, so I can wear my clothes. I keep making fudge...and eating it, too. Sigh.
Rose1533: Had my annual checkup the other day. My cholesterol is down almost 40 points! From last year.
Satin Puzzle: Ah good.
W2PSushi: Thanks all.
Satin Puzzle: Thank you for the invite. Goodnight.
Rose1533: LOL! Sounds good, Jo.
MyWishforyou2: Awesome chat tonight Paul. ty also for the invite.
Rose1533: It was good to see Linda again, even for a short time. Didn't get to tell her that.
MyWishforyou2: Paul and everyone good night and God bless you all.
Rose1533: OK, I guess I'll go, too. Need to check e-mail. Night, all.
Deluge7: Howdy, Paul. But I've got to go, have to get up at 5:30.
Bauda: Goodnight all
12/1/08 20:6:16 Closing "Chat Log 12-1-08"
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