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W2P GUEST SPEAKERS
Richard A. Lovett
Rick is a full time author and a running coach.
7/16/07 6:23:38 PM Opening "Chat Log 7-16-07"
JOYFULWRITER99: All right!
W2PSushi: I know Richard Lovett from reading Analog magazine, and through our participation on its reader's discussion board.
W2PSushi: Mr. Lovett holds degrees in law, economics, and astrophysics.
W2PSushi: He is also a runner and a running coach.
W2PSushi: He makes his living by writing short fiction, books about sports, and numerous fact articles.
W2PSushi: He will speak on "writing what you know in fantastic fiction."
RALovett: Yes, the first thing is that although I write a lot of computer oriented stories, I obviously don't know my way around AOL!
RALovett: So I don't' write nuts and bolts computer stories. I also type fast, so there will be errors, in the interest of getting info out!
RALovett: One of the things I wrote about for Analog in a fact article was something about "how to write about things you know nothing about"
RALovett: I try to balance that with things I know lots about
RALovett: If you're' interested in seeing it in action (and don't mind a few thousand words of reading) a good example
Mallie1025: Laurie--just in time
RALovett: is my Analog (June) novella "The Sands of Titan."
NaiEldheni: (thanks Micki...kids now out of the way)
McComas825: for what?
RALovett: In it, (a) I knew a modest amount about Titan, which I'd written about at length for other magazines
RALovett: But my character was a runner (!)
RALovett: who was fascinated by endurance...the issue of how far we can go before we drop. I gave him various motivations for this
RALovett: which came pretty much from my own experience. While the Analog story was in press
Mallie1025: Our guest speaker Mr. Lovett
RALovett: I wrote a coaching article for the June Running Times magazine, about the source of toughness
RALovett: for runners. If you can find that and compare it to the story, you'll find that I stole a lot of myself for my character
W2PSushi: Great photo of our guest, too
RALovett: though he's emphatically not me. When I do this, I'm after "there but for the grace of God go I' type of things
RALovett: Given how much trouble I had getting on here, I'll ask for questions soon. But the main
RALovett: thought I had in mind was that when you're looking for details to make characters or anecdotes come alive
RALovett: steal ones from yourself. One of the joys of doing Analog's profile column (called "Biolog") is that I've discovered that almost everyone does this. At least of the up and comers I get to profile for Analog.
RALovett: So, I'm not really into lecturing, even though I'm an ex prof. I'd much rather take questions. Let's see how fast I can type>
Mallie1025: I am just learning to write fiction--and I have to use myself--like you said and names of those I know to get into their heads--Is this going to get better?
Sheiltg: sorry I just got back. AOL gremlins attacked and I got the boot. We fought and I won.
RALovett: Having just spent 45 min fighting AOL gremlins
Mallie1025: yes lol typing--I go slow and sloppy
RALovett: It has been said that first stories are often the most autobiographical. Mine was probably that way in some ways
RALovett: It was the tale of a futuristic runner who came to a race. And yes, Mallie, this is to you. Sorry...had to think a bit
Mallie1025: So I might one day slide into fiction more easily then--I have written non-fiction for over 20 yrs
Mallie1025: Big jump
RALovett: Anyway the idea is that, as you go on, your characters will digress more and more from yourself and will then become less and less autobiographical. Which is exactly what you're wondering
RALovett: At the same time
RALovett: I find that I draw ever more boldly on my own stuff
Mallie1025: Thanks--makes me feel more hopeful
RALovett: when seeking character motivation. The example I gave was from my 20th or so (maybe more) published story
RALovett: and I was drawing heavily on myself. What I don't do is think of the character as me
RALovett: I give him little bits of me, but he's someone else. I just like to grab things that I can understand
RALovett: I can always spot it in other people's stories,
RALovett: particularly political ones, when they are writing about characters they don't really understand
Mallie1025: Yes, I can too and they are fiction writers from the start
Mallie1025: thanks for the info-ga
W2PSushi: McComas next
McComas825: My first fiction historical romance is going to be released in about 6 weeks or so, I am currently working on a project of non-fiction, is there much difference, in your opinion, between the two?
RALovett: Also, l like you was a nonfiction writer since...1986. First fiction sale 1999. I was an established essayist.
Mallie1025: Me too!!!
W2PSushi: he is also psychic
Sunnyasalark: need him bad
RALovett: McComas825, you mean between nonfiction and historical romance?
McComas825: I mean between fiction, any fiction and non-fiction...in general...
RALovett: Ok, generally, yes, there's a lot. The key thing in nonfiction is that you're taking
McComas825: I myself find writing fiction fairly easy, since I seem to be some sort of natural story teller...but with fiction I am finding it slightly more difficult
RALovett: actual events and arranging them in an order that makes sense. this is particularly the case for essays, which are the nonfictional thing closest to fiction.
RALovett: In fiction, you get to make things up. That's a huge difference, and a lot
RALovett: of folks can't do both.
RALovett: I find nonfiction far, far easier.
RALovett: In fiction often the things that MAKE an essay you'd never sell because nobody would believer them
RALovett: g/a next
McComas825: oh ok...well I am trying to do this non-fiction...and I think I started it trying to see if I could manage to do it...lol
McComas825: thank you very much.
RALovett: While I'm waiting, I'll add to McComas825's thoughts, that in nonfiction, if it's exposition, clarity of exposition is the key. In fiction, you're often not able to practice that because you'll be accused of lecturing. So forget all
JOYFULWRITER99: RA, my first book is a Christian Sci Fi....I don't really 'see' myself in the characters...they sort of developed on their own...does that ever happen to you?> ga
RALovett: the warnings against info-dumps. Nonfiction is one big info dump!
RALovett: Yes. Again in the novella referred to, the character "Brittney" a sentient AI who pretty much steals the show wasn't in my mind until she interrupted the first scene and piped up
JOYFULWRITER99: right, same thing in my book
RALovett: with a comment. Also in my first story for Analog, I'd written it a bunch of times and collected rejections for at least 16 years
RALovett: It got longer and more complex each time. The final
JOYFULWRITER99: oh wow
RALovett: sale version came when I asked myself what a secondary character would be thinking
JOYFULWRITER99: mine has morphed into something I'm very proud of, in the last 12 years.
RALovett: in the penultimate scenes. I had no idea. I
RALovett: also realized that it didn't really matter what happened. The hero had 3 goals, and he could get or lose any of them in
RALovett: and combo and the story would work. So there were 8 possible endings. So I went back to the start
RALovett: and wrote back through it to see what the c characters would do. Part of it was a love story and I didn't know what
RALovett: way it would turn out until the critical
RALovett: question was asked and the character now had an answer. But it could have gone either way. I've also written stories where I'm not letting it
RALovett: go some ways. Then I'm much more controlling. Connie Willis once told me of her work, "They're my characters and they'll go lie down and die if I tell them to." She's probably said that rather widely. It sounds like a very Connie re
JOYFULWRITER99: some of my characters fight me over some things...it's as though they're real on some level...ga
W2PSushi: hi Dion
Writeur17: Hello everyone.
W2PSushi: any more questions?
RALovett: Many writers say this. Joyfulwriter99. W
W2PSushi: I have a question!
JOYFULWRITER99: I'm glad I'm not alone then ...lol
RALovett: hat you should ask yourself is what this means. It means that in some manner you are fighting yourself over something. It's probably your subconscious trying to tell you something.
JOYFULWRITER99: and thanks, RA
RALovett: probably important
Mallie1025: I have a statement--just finishing and releasing my only book--a non-fiction
W2PSushi: You've turned many things into story ideas
W2PSushi: stuff I have lived and never considered it material
W2PSushi: do you have a special way to inspire this?
Mallie1025: bittersweet, funny memoir, but written as a novel kind of helped pull me toward fiction, I hope LOL
RALovett: That's a flattering remark.
W2PSushi: (not quite sure how best to phrase this)
RALovett: Sorry, I tromped on you. Ready?
RALovett: One of my most successful stories came form a computer crash. I
RALovett: was walking out the shop, the phrase "irrecoverable disk failure" and "maybe for $1500 we can get something" echoing in my brain, thinking that the lost
RALovett: Analog fact article wasn't worth $1500 and I could rewrite it in 3 days or so
RALovett: and somewhere between the shop door and my car, I asked myself "what's the sfnal equivalent of this?" And bang...I had "911-Backup" in its entirety, echoing around my brain. Couldn't' wait to get to a pen
W2PSushi: I remember that one
W2PSushi: people back up their brains in real-time, correct?
RALovett: It happened on a run once, too. I was thinking about long-distance relationships, and from one block to the next I had what became my 4th analog sale. It was a romance called Distant Fire.
RALovett: Out of phase
RALovett: Yes, that's the one...backed up brains. The guy winds up back in kindergarten.
RALovett: Anyway, Distant Fire was the same thing. And yeah I was thinking bout a redhead, if anyone remembers the story. A very Celtic one. But she'd never have recognized herself (I hope).
W2PSushi: no phone calls from a lawyer -- yet
RALovett: Anyway, on Distant Fire
RALovett: I portrayed her rather flatteringly.
Mallie1025: good thing!!
RALovett: Yeah...that was the issue. She was many thousands of miles away and not likely to get closer, much to my dismay.
RALovett: the story came to me from one step to another on a run, full blown. Wish they all did that. I chanted the opening lines for four miles back to my car.
RALovett: next ga
Mallie1025: I had a writer friend who compared a woman to a rainbow trout and thought it was a compliment!
NaiEldheni: LOL Micki
RALovett: I'm speechless..
W2PSushi: men . . .
Mallie1025: Jackatbrun--he died two yrs ago
W2PSushi: well my wide *does* work in a sushi bar
JOYFULWRITER99: Mallie, that was sad, and we all miss him
W2PSushi: wide = wife
W2PSushi: and she is thin!
RALovett: I saw that typo...
W2PSushi: any more questions for Mr. Lovett?
RALovett: Good one, actually. Save it for a story some time
Mallie1025: He really was insulted when Ii tried to explain no woman wants to be compared to a trout-no matter how beautiful it is!!
RALovett: Hard to catch?
Mallie1025: Freudian slip I think--wide--wife lol
RALovett: the topic of great writers and great yearning?
W2PSushi: she weighs 95 pounds soaking wet
RALovett: We could push a metaphor there. Norman Macleann did it with Presbyterians and fishing...
RALovett: Nice counterpoint
Mallie1025: Hmm, another of his great stories was about a woman and a lovely snake!!
RALovett: There is a theme here...
Mallie1025: Now Paul --don't make me hate her!!
W2PSushi: watch out folks you are giving him MORE story ideas
Mallie1025: Yes--I see a pattern forming
RALovett: I got one yesterday, hiking... and today I had an event that will maybe make it into something. Life does give those...
W2PSushi: takes a special mindset, I think
W2PSushi: being open to the clues all around us
W2PSushi: nothing is ever quite ordinary . . .
RALovett: Seriously, on that one. If something makes you angry it's great fodder.
Mallie1025: Paul, haven't your kids ever done things to make a good story--just change their names
JOYFULWRITER99: I get my ideas for my novels in weird ways...lol
W2PSushi: Micki I do need to ponder that angle
Mallie1025: My family has been splattered in the paper with their antics for two decades now
RALovett: Everyone always asks everyone else where they come from. And nobody has the same answer.
W2PSushi: not many kids in my stories
W2PSushi: but there is always room for more
Mallie1025: Now grandkids taking over
RALovett: Interesting...no kids in my stories, and not likely to be any.
W2PSushi: I saw a near-violent union worker incident last week
Mallie1025: Kids are great material
W2PSushi: that may give an idea
RALovett: Translation: never had any, so they strike me as alien. More alien than any aliens I could invent. Also there's a tendency among SF writers to write unrealistic kids.
W2PSushi: very true
W2PSushi: mutants or geniuses, etc
RALovett: I'm trying to think of really good kids in stories. Connie Willis does it. And of course there's Ender.
JOYFULWRITER99: I have one book called the Camel Queen...I was listening to a news article on TV about camels, chatting online, and called a friend of mine the Comma Queen, and The Camel Queen was born...
Mallie1025: There you Ra--alien kids---actually I think sometimes they are
Mallie1025: Nice idea Joy!!
RALovett: Hmmm, there's a story in that. It's probably been done.
W2PSushi: Rick, have you considered doing a novel?
RALovett: Two months ago, I'd have said no way.
JOYFULWRITER99: RA, there are no new stories, just different ways of telling them
W2PSushi: I have seen many short stories of yours
W2PSushi: and now?
RALovett: I figured I had ADD. Also my style of writing isn't conducive to a novel.
RALovett: What I'd really like (lol) is a collection.
RALovett: I just sent Stanley Schmidt 88 pages today. A sequel to Sands of Titan. I've never written a sequel before or had any desire to do so.
Mallie1025: Rick don't you find--like me--that when you write a short fiction, it just seems to know when it's over?
Mallie1025: I can't seem to stretch them into a novel
Mallie1025: That's not short fiction--that a novella!!
RALovett: But there had always been two stories in the Saturn system
W2PSushi: I got an idea for a setting-series
W2PSushi: am working on #2 today, for an Editor that Mr. Lovett introduced me to, very kindly
W2PSushi: I need it to be 'harder' science fiction
W2PSushi: but still it will be kinda weird
RALovett: and I decided that since I already had characters I liked there, I might as well redo them. So I know have 185 pages, total. Add a third, and it's a short novel. Four would be better. so maybe...I know where it goes next if I find m
RALovett: self so inclined.
Mallie1025: what's "hard" sci-fi?
W2PSushi: I posted about that this afternoon
RALovett: As for Mallie's question, yes, I do know when it's over. And I don't like things that simply go on to novel length when they'd be great novellas.
RALovett: "hard SF"
Mallie1025: Or Rick--combine them into one full novel
Mallie1025: I haven't even reached the novella length yet
RALovett: good question. I was rather startled when I first heard myself referred to as a hard SF writer. Locus recently used the term sociotechnical or something like that. That's more it. "Hard" SF is Benford and company, where they actually
Mallie1025: 400 page memoir nearly killed me--still recovering
RALovett: y calculate the physics. Though I've done a bit of that.
W2PSushi: means, exacting known science
W2PSushi: opposite of fantasy
W2PSushi: lots of SF is kinda halfway
RALovett: I did my first novella from something I'd thought would be a wry 4500 words. It came up at 28,000, though I had to cut to 22,000 to fit Analog length needs. that's when I knew that the right idea could be a novel
JOYFULWRITER99: I did a lot of research for my novel, RA, have you had to do any?
RALovett: Congrats on the memoir.
RALovett: I'm losing threads here...research has it..
Mallie1025: I thought that's what it was--Paul write technical sci-fi and so does Dale--very detail oriented
W2PSushi: we are multithreaded types here
W2PSushi: six subconversations at once!
Mallie1025: I drove them both crazy critting my non-fiction
RALovett: Usually, I write stories based on things I know. I did that for the Nature piece. Research constitutes checking the web to make sure I actually
Mallie1025: They wanted room measurements for Pete's sake!!
RALovett: know them. It also means doing some calculations. IN Sands of Titan, I made a spread sheet to track
RALovett: Floyd's air consumption. And I checked the liquification point of Oxygen. that was a panic when I realized
W2PSushi: I just read Mr. Lovett's short in Nature magazine
W2PSushi: I hope to make a third attempt there
W2PSushi: 'harder' as I said
RALovett: that oxygen might liquefy on titan. Luckily I had 5 degrees c to spare. but that's the type of research I do.
W2PSushi: I know they like the setting, so I will use it again
W2PSushi: yes, he needs to start a fire
RALovett: Use it!
JOYFULWRITER99: when it comes to chemicals, I know nothing, and I have a WIP that I need to do some research for...
W2PSushi: both of our Titan stories mentioned waves
Mallie1025: I like hard sci-fi as long as it isn't so technical as to me over my head--not hard to do
W2PSushi: I wondered how a stone would skip, on a lake on Titan
W2PSushi: kinda complicated physics
RALovett: How did it skip? See, I'd have to research that...so I'd rather dodge it. But I did
RALovett: want to know whether space suited Floyd could swim in Methane.
W2PSushi: low gravity, thinner fluid, thicker air . . .
RALovett: He can't if you're wondering. Sinks like a stone. But doesn't skip?
JOYFULWRITER99: for mine, I need to research chemical compounds in relationship to pharmaceuticals.
RALovett: Joy.. can you elaborate?
W2PSushi: my hero skips ice-rocks
Mallie1025: Sigh . . .I know the rectal temperature of a bumblebee
JOYFULWRITER99: in my premise, there is a pharmaceutical company, who have a 'cure' for everything, but they're being paid to destroy it...I need some sort of combination that would at least sound plausible.
W2PSushi: bet that was one MAD bee
RALovett: Some things you really need to get right. I had to do some research on Titan to see if he could burn the air by adding oxygen. came up really close. Ah..pharma now
Mallie1025: yep--not saying how I got it either lol
W2PSushi: Joy, a cure for it all?
RALovett: A single cure for everything? Yipes. I know some about this field. You're in tough shape. Take a look at combinational
W2PSushi: cancer, heart attacks, arthritis -- in one pill?
JOYFULWRITER99: Paul, for every known disease
RALovett: chemistry, though, and bioinformatics. They might have stumbled on a line of materials that
JOYFULWRITER99: one serum
W2PSushi: hi Edna
JOYFULWRITER99: a serum that can cure cancer, AIDS, etc
W2PSushi: we are still here!
RALovett: has multiple uses. Or better yet, some form of super-fast combinational chemistry that allows them to synthesize a whole range of cures
Mallie1025: Well Rick I know for a fact that they are making combo heart pills now for many different things--all in one pill
RALovett: A single serum that will cure everything is dubious.
RALovett: Hmm, are those single-ingredient pills, or multi-ingredient?
JOYFULWRITER99: RA, my protag gets saturated with the compound, and his blood becomes a cure-all
JOYFULWRITER99: it's sci fi.
Mallie1025: besides, in sci-fi and fiction, why can't you just make it up?
W2PSushi: maybe it's an injectable nanotech medical lab and drug factory?
Mallie1025: Hi Sis
JOYFULWRITER99: so, I do have some creative license here.
Sis Dctnry: Mallie - hi
W2PSushi: that is 'soft' SF for sure
RALovett: You have some creative license..
Sunnyasalark: Edna hello and welcome
RALovett: that's the diff in "hard SF" as mentioned above. The
W2PSushi: quite do-able, and quite different from what Mr. Lovett writes, I think
JOYFULWRITER99: I want to make it plausible, and sound right
RALovett: license there can be revoked more easily!
W2PSushi: it's not a Magical Potion
RALovett: I'm still thinking. Interesting question.
W2PSushi: need some techie jargon!
Mallie1025: I would think soft sci-fi would have a wider appeal in sales
JOYFULWRITER99: Paul, exactly
Sunnyasalark: think so Mallie
JOYFULWRITER99: techie jargon would suffice
RALovett: What you have is a magic potion story which you want to gussy up as SF. This is a very tried and true field. Rajnar Vajra does it all the time
Sheiltg: Hmmm, then may I suggest not the cure all pill scenario, but the mechanics, as in mixing of the ingredients in a certain way, produces specific antigens, that work against a specific disease.
W2PSushi: well Star Wars is very 'soft'
W2PSushi: and much of Star Trek, , but less so
RALovett: If you can take a good fantasy theme and make it sfnal, it's an easy sell.
JOYFULWRITER99: Sheila, it's something about his blood and the serum
W2PSushi: as you know, my character Roshanna is like that
RALovett: I'd still look really hard at combinational chemistry. Maybe you can turn him into a nanolab on a chip.
W2PSushi: but it's for more complex. She has an artificial immune system
JOYFULWRITER99: that's a possibility. I never thought of that, RA.
Mallie1025: Well no matter how you get it--once you have one sample--you've got it all, no?
W2PSushi: a whole built-in interactive 'wetware' system
Sheiltg: antibiotics and genetics. similar to the Hulk, he is alright as long as he doesn't get mad, then things genetically happen.
RALovett: Soft SF probably has wider appeal. But it works best if it's got some sort of semi-plausibility, as you were saying.
JOYFULWRITER99: right. it has to be plausible.
RALovett: Yes. And plausible covers a fairly wide range.
Mallie1025: David you did something of this nature in your book
JOYFULWRITER99: I won't go over Reader's head, but I also don't want to insult intelligence.
W2PSushi: methinks that Marvel and DC are not the greatest science research resources
Mallie1025: Made a compound that changed your character genetically
Mallie1025: and you do too, Paul with Rosh
W2PSushi: not a 'compound'
W2PSushi: a whole comprehensive treatment program, and a multifaceted new immune system
RALovett: Exactly. And once you figure it out you don't have to go into details. I use this all the time...my ... what was it, May? story, "Bambi steaks" involved mindswap. Note that I did NOT attempt to explain how it worked. I was
RALovett: interested only in the use. My characters haven't a clue how it works. I haven't a clue, ether. I just assumed it and ran with it.
JOYFULWRITER99: the compound burned him at first.
Sheiltg: Yeah, Mallie I think you are right. The research I've done for my work, I've found that as a 'standard human', most scenario's are not plausible unless there is some form of genetic mutation.
JOYFULWRITER99: he becomes a mutation
W2PSushi: he wrote a "mind swap" story
JOYFULWRITER99: his scars from previous injuries even disappear.
W2PSushi: and gave zero details
W2PSushi: just posit that it does work and has
RALovett: Be careful with the mutation theme. That's been misused a lot, and makes biologists cry.
JOYFULWRITER99: everything inside him changes
Sheiltg: Spider Man, bit by a radioactive spider, superman does not count as he was born with the special genetics he has, even in the Fantastic Four, there is genetic mutation
Mallie1025: Wow I actually made a semi-intelligent remark on sci-fi--where will it all end/
JOYFULWRITER99: not the outside
JOYFULWRITER99: ROFL, Mallie
W2PSushi: I bought my son a Science of the X Men book
JOYFULWRITER99: he, in essence, becomes perfect in body
W2PSushi: might come in handy again
Sheiltg: Well in my work, my creators, use genetics to create life.
Mallie1025: I love shape-shifters, but that's fantasy
JOYFULWRITER99: there are no longer any genetic mutations, or weaknesses
Sheiltg: combining specific genetic traits to create a whole new life form.
RALovett: Shape-shifters can be made sfnal.
JOYFULWRITER99: he may very well be able to live forever...
JOYFULWRITER99: but I haven't decided that yet
RALovett: Dean Koontz has done it quite handwavingly..
JOYFULWRITER99: RA, Koontz is an awesome writer
Mallie1025: Actually, Joy ewe are not too far from that knowledge.
JOYFULWRITER99: Mallie, can you explain?
Sheiltg: Grimai, are specific pig genetics combined with the full genetic string of a grizzly.
W2PSushi: pigs with claws?
Sheiltg: Good eating Grimai are, but extremely dangerous in the wild.
W2PSushi: or bears that taste like bacon?
Mallie1025: opening up the vast expanse of DNA and stem cells and cloning will help recreate humanity as we know it
Sheiltg: bears that taste like bacon
JOYFULWRITER99: and he's now the real deal...
Mallie1025: whatever is dreamt of in fiction is soon realized in real life
W2PSushi: Mr. Lovett has a few more minutes to chat
JOYFULWRITER99: the first so to speak.
W2PSushi: great resource here folks -- hit 'em with your best questions!
Mallie1025: Look at Scotty's scanner--modern day MRI--who knew?
JOYFULWRITER99: Mallie, I know....and that is very much a major part in Shadow Walk: The Gathering.
RALovett: Yes, part of the tricorder genius is that it avoided specifics.
Sheiltg: communicators of Star Trek, helped evolve cell phones.
W2PSushi: I know Bruce Damer and Seth Shostak, who were in that TV show
JOYFULWRITER99: I would love to have the log for this session, Paul
Mallie1025: yes, so simplistic, it was believable
Sunnyasalark: thank you RA for this great information. goodnight writers
W2PSushi: How William Shatner Changed the World
Mallie1025: Night sunny
JOYFULWRITER99: Night, Sunny
Sheiltg: night sunny
Sunnyasalark: love Bill, from Canada you know LOL
W2PSushi: I will put you on the list, Joy
Mallie1025: Well his writer sure did
JOYFULWRITER99: Paul, thanks
RALovett: You're welcome, and I hope it was helpful. This was fun in a very polyphonic manner. I hope I didn't drop the ball on too many questions. the moment I'd look up from typing there'd be a whole new screen!
Sheiltg: RA, at what age did you decide to start writing books and stories as a profession?
W2PSushi: Online chatting is like riding a bicycle. A new human skill, not used on the plains of Africa
RALovett: One moment, thinking (long ago).
Mallie1025: When I was a kid, that space guy--Rogers? His vehicle looks just like our rockets--30 yrs later
Mallie1025: If we can write it--science can create it--we just never get the credit
RALovett: When I was 12 or 13 the thing I most wanted to do in life was write science fiction. I collected rejection slips in college, grad school, and for years later. But I didn't get into
W2PSushi: I just now read the original Anthony "Buck" Rogers novel
Sheiltg: I had a whole list of questions I was prepared to ask tonight. Gremlins interrupted
W2PSushi: not cartoonish at all
RALovett: nonfiction until 1986, when I sold my first piece, to the Sacramento bee. Within 2 years, I was making my living at it.
RALovett: I've never wanted a day job since.
W2PSushi: 20 years!
W2PSushi: I would be chicken to make the leap
RALovett: I'm still here for 12 more min
Mallie1025: I didn't want to write it--I wanted to fly the space ships--today I won't get into a plane lol
W2PSushi: Shelia, revive those questions, quick!
Mallie1025: Childhood is so lost on kids!
Sheiltg: What specific story opened your mind to the power of the writing your own work?
Mallie1025: that's wonderful Rick--writing for newspapers never paid well
RALovett: Yipes. Lemme think. Rocket Ship Galileo. I wrote a sequel in grade school. Copyright? What's that.
RALovett: Newspapers paid, once. You could do the same story for...my max was 12 papers x $300. One day to write. Forever to market.
RALovett: You have to be a photographer to make that work. I've got 130 or so photo layouts to my credit.
Mallie1025: I got close but no cigar in syndication
RALovett: Writer/photographer works well in travel writing, which is what I did. It shows in my fiction, I suspect.
W2PSushi: that's what they call a 'stringer?'
Sheiltg: How do you feel about publishers limiting their print edition numbers, in the name of economy, since the web is so readily available for readers to purchase POD novels?
RALovett: A stringer is a regular freelancer. What put me in the black was doing that for a small trade pub with a big budget called "Food chemical News.
W2PSushi: ah yes, that is found on every front porch
RALovett: I fear that paper books are in big trouble. And the web $ formula only works for some thing. My main client today is web copy for National Geographic. that pays quite well per hour.
Mallie1025: Yeah I was a stringer for one paper, staff writer for the other--neither paid well 1:25 per column inch
Mallie1025: The new palm readers are going to make e-books sell like crazy
JOYFULWRITER99: Mallie, I got a salary
JOYFULWRITER99: I got paid by the hour
RALovett: The photos really add to it, because they're inches, too, and big. But I tried $1.50/inch once for a trade pub that didn't want conciseness. Couldn't make $100/day.
JOYFULWRITER99: plus mileage
Mallie1025: I was offered full time by both papers but was raising kids and grandkids
JOYFULWRITER99: ahh, right
RALovett: I hope you're right Mallie. I sell some of my stories via Fictionwise. I do fairly well by their standards. A movie a month?
Mallie1025: First things first--never about me lol
RALovett: Maybe two.
JOYFULWRITER99: well, when I was a stringer, they only paid $35 for each article....period
RALovett: It depends on the paper. Most of them haven't raised their rates since the 60s. I still do newspaper work. Get $500/article and can reprint in Australia.
Sheiltg: okay that's all that I can remember off the top of my head right now. Thank you for the answers.
RALovett: And use it as fodder for Analog!
Mallie1025: yeah--I got forty as a stringer--but it kept me writing my first love--humor essays
JOYFULWRITER99: Mallie, that's great
RALovett: Humor essays pay horribly. I did a few of those. $200 was tops, and that was the Bee.
Mallie1025: Well guys, it's after midnight here n NY and I have to work tomorrow
JOYFULWRITER99: I worked for a small weekly county paper, RA
W2PSushi: I start work at % AM
Sheiltg: night Mallie
W2PSushi: 5 AM
Mallie1025: Great chat--Hope you can come and visit soon Rick
JOYFULWRITER99: Night, Mallie
W2PSushi: just the usual for summer rush time
JOYFULWRITER99: take care
RALovett: Ah, the advantages of writing for a living. I have a 11 short articles due on Friday. But no need to do them at any given time in the am!
Mallie1025: Night all--stay well
JOYFULWRITER99: RA, that's wonderful.
RALovett: Good night, and thanks for waiting for me to figure out the Gremlins.
Sheiltg: okay I am heading out also. W2P can you add me to the list?
W2PSushi: thanks very much, Mr. Lovett
Mallie1025: In return you must promise to return soon!!
JOYFULWRITER99: RA, you're most welcome, and I enjoyed the chat
RALovett: You're welcome.
W2PSushi: I will send you the chat log, Sheila
Sheiltg: thank you, be well and write hard all.
JOYFULWRITER99: good night, all
RALovett: Good night and good luck to all.
W2PSushi: good evening everyone
W2PSushi: see you Frank, and Adam
Fjm3eyes: bye Paul
7/16/07 9:14:57 PM Closing "Chat Log 7-16-07"
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