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W2P GUEST SPEAKERS
J. A. Konrath
Mr. Konrath writes thrillers.
(This log is unusally long.)
5/1/06 6:53:09 PM Opening "Chat Log 5/1/06"
msakey: Actually, just wanted to check in, say a quick hey, make sure Joe's tech difficulties were solved
msakey: Can't stay too long
W2PSushi: Hi all
Dhewco: Joe, this is Paul, our erstwhile governator (he's from Cali)
haknort: I should have showered
msakey: Been telling you that for years
W2PSushi: don't worry, our modems are not THAT good
Dhewco: I take it you two know each other, Joe
haknort: Marcus makes more money than I do. :-(
Rose1533: What's up tonight?
Dhewco: Welcome Carol, our guest, haknort, is here. We'll start in a while
Rose1533: Oh, right!
Rose1533: BTW, are you going to be there tomorrow, David?
Dhewco: I plan on it
haknort: But I'm older and fatter
W2PSushi: I am pondering whether to attend BayCon
W2PSushi: on Memorial Day weekend
W2PSushi: don't get to many SF Cons
Rose1533: Me, too. Still haven't lost weight after having my girl, and she's 11 now!
W2PSushi: (fan events)
haknort: Were you at the bookfest in LA?
Dhewco: Marcus makes more money than you, Joe...I guess that WD article must have been about a different JA Konrath
W2PSushi: I avoid LA at all costs
haknort: Marcus landed a very nice book deal
W2PSushi: if I get wealthy real fast, I'll go to WorldCon, tho
msakey: Don't listen to Joe. Unless he's giving writing advice, in which case treat it like gospel. Mostly. ;)
Soulofpanther1: Greetings Everyone:)
W2PSushi: hi Bo
Dhewco: Soul, welcome
Soulofpanther1: Hi Paul
Soulofpanther1: Hi Dhew
Rose1533: I went to a conference in Fort Worth years ago, and I haven't heard of any conference here since I moved back. ::::sigh::::
Rose1533: Hi, Bo
W2PSushi: Carol, there are several in Dallas
Soulofpanther1: Hi Rose
W2PSushi: the Yard Dog Press gang is often there
Dhewco: I've been wanting to go to the Savannah Conference, but I haven't been able to afford it yet
Dhewco: afford even
wallywallydoodle: hello everyone.
haknort: Conferences are great, but staying home and writing is cheaper and will get you more in this biz
haknort: You need the material more than the contacts
Mallie1025: back!! hello everyone
Dhewco: Paul, Joe's got some comments, then he'll take questions. You should announce that we may run a little over. Joe told his blog that he'd be here about two hours. :)_
Soulofpanther1: Hi Mallie
Soulofpanther1: Hi Wally
haknort: I'm chained to my computer, and this beats answering email
W2PSushi: sounds like a plan! :)
W2PSushi: Folks, tonight we are hosting author J A Konrath
W2PSushi: author of Bloody Mary and Whiskey Sour
haknort: My name is JA Konrath
haknort: I'm a thriller writer
haknort: My third novel, RUSTY NAIL, is being released this July
haknort: hardcover and on audio
W2PSushi: are we going to use Protocol?
W2PSushi: formal question queue? it's up to the guest
Mallie1025: congrats!! I like the titles
haknort: Let anyone jump in
W2PSushi: you may get what you've asked for! ;-D
W2PSushi: presentation first, however!
Soulofawriter18: hello everyone
W2PSushi: let the jumping-in commence later
haknort: My books are about a Chicago cop named Jacqueline "Jack" Daniels
haknort: My books are a cross between James Patterson and Dave Barry
Dhewco: Joe, we'll have stragglers coming in for the next ten-fifteen minutes, so be patient with the greets that may occur on screen
haknort: Scary but laugh out loud
haknort: I've had about 30 short stories and articles published in the last 3 years
haknort: I just signed my second 3-book, six figure deal
haknort: my blog is called A NEWBIE'S GUIDE TO PUBLISHING and gets about 1000 unique hits a day
haknort: and I'm not wearing any pants
haknort: Basically, I'm a slush pile success story
haknort: after 12 years
haknort: a million written words
haknort: and 450 rejections
haknort: I finally got a book deal
haknort: Not a single sale prior to that
haknort: I found an agent without knowing anyone in the biz
haknort: through the slush pile
haknort: she couldn't sell the first three books I wrote with her
Ky93bb: was this with Dystel?
haknort: red reminds me of line edits
haknort: Sort of--I signed with the Dystel agency, with another agent named Todd Keithley
haknort: Basically I ignored everyone's advice on how to get an agent and did something differently
haknort: After almost 500 rejections, I figured I was doing something wrong
haknort: even though I'd read all the 'how to find an agent' books
haknort: I figured my queries weren't even being read.
haknort: And I was right.
haknort: The average mid-size NY agent has between 200 and 400 clients
haknort: Each client does a book a year
haknort: So every single day of the year, an agent is selling a book.
haknort: Or doing a contract
haknort: or changing a contract
haknort: or selling subsidiary rights
haknort: or having lunch with editors
haknort: the slush pile is low on the to-do list for agents
haknort: and a mid level agent can get more than 100 queries a week
OnlineHost: “Hillwithit” has entered the room.
haknort: how do you stand out from the pack?
haknort: I decided to do something different
haknort: Queries are standardized: letter+first 50 pages +SASE
haknort: That gets mailed in a 9x12 envelope
haknort: arrives unsolicited
haknort: and gets put in the TBR pile
haknort: If you've ever been in an agent's office, the TBR pile is huge
haknort: There are piles EVERYWHERE
haknort: thousands of queries
haknort: When the mail comes, the queries are sorted out, put in a pile, and left there
haknort: Sometimes for months
haknort: Then an agent will hire an intern to sort through them
haknort: Someone in college, or just out of college
haknort: To give them quick reads then stuff the Xerox rejection into the SASE
haknort: My stuff wasn't getting read.
haknort: No one's stuff gets read.
haknort: So how do you get read?
haknort: Instead of a standard query, I sent a letter.
haknort: four pages
haknort: page 1: bio with pic
haknort: page 2: excerpt from book
haknort: page 3: back jacket copy
haknort: page 4: a note saying that if they were interested, call me
haknort: No sample chapters
haknort: no SASE
haknort: no query letter
haknort: just those four pages, in a business envelope.
haknort: when the agent sorted the mail that morning, she put all the big envelopes in the TBR pile
haknort: but my little envelope looked like a letter, so it was opened and read right away
haknort: I sent out this package to 120 agents on a Thursday
haknort: By the following Tuesday, I had 5 agents call me up.
haknort: By the end of that week, I has 12 interested.
haknort: What I did was: sell to agents the way that booksellers sell to you.
haknort: Why do you buy a book in a store?
haknort: By an unknown author?
haknort: You pick up the book, look at the bio, read a sample page, and read the back jacket copy.
haknort: So that's what I sent agents.
haknort: I signed with Todd Keithley at Jane Dystel's agency, did some rewrites, and he sent the book to about 15 publishers.
haknort: It got rejected.
haknort: Then Todd left the agency. But Jane kept me.
haknort: She liked my writing, and wanted to manage my career, not just rep a single book.
haknort: So I wrote another.
haknort: More rejections.
haknort: Wrote another.
haknort: Jane didn't like it, wouldn't rep it.
haknort: Wrote another.
haknort: Got a six figure deal.
haknort: And now here I am. :-)
Ky93bb: (we all get chills!)
haknort: Questions so far?
W2PSushi: when do you sleep!? ;-D
haknort: Sleep is for wimps.
Ky93bb: I was going to ask that
haknort: Writing is the easy part.
haknort: Marketing is hard.
haknort: Self-promotion is hard.
haknort: I write a book in about 30 days.
wallywallydoodle: from what part of the book do you take a sample page?
haknort: The other 335, I'm promoting.
WriterOfDreamz: the most interesting ;-)
Kinthu: No day job, eh?
Jayewriter: Question about the bio: with no previous pub credits, what did you include to catch their attention since it's page one?
haknort: wally: take a high conflict/high action point, or a revealing point
haknort: kin: no day job anymore. :-)
haknort: jaye: I tried to make my bio interesting, even though I had no pub creds.
haknort: on www.jakonrath.com (Keyword to: http://www.jakonrath.com), I have a TIPS page
haknort: lots of writing tips.
haknort: I have the original query on there as a free download
W2PSushi: what happens after agents start getting heaps of Konrathic Queries??? ;-)
Mallie1025: If you had credits where would you have put them?
Kinthu: Kind of defeats the purpose
W2PSushi: you will have to invent some more, eh?
Jayewriter: Also, the package you sent got them to request fulls, correct? No one offered you representation on the spot, right?
haknort: Many already have, and many have found agents
W2PSushi: good, good
haknort: jaye: they requested fulls
haknort: they wanted exclusives
haknort: and they all got exclusives :-)
Kinthu: Ptah on exclusives
MrCheapo847: was the winos a true story
Ky93bb: Joe, an agent at Dystel had my partial for about 4 months. When I emailed for an update, saying I revised the novel, he requested the whole thing (by email). I don't know if he read the original 50 pages, but I assume he must...
haknort: at least, they all thought they had exclusives
wallywallydoodle: a little off topic, but Mr. konrath, I was wondering if you'd recommend publishing shorts on amazon, if you've enjoyed your experience there
Ky93bb: have taken a look. How good to you think the chances are that he'll accept the full now?
haknort: ky: I'm sure they got it. Email me and I'll send Jane a note on your behalf.
haknort: wally--I haven't seen any royalty statements form Amazon yet for the Shorts program, but I like the program a lot
Ky93bb: Joe, that is really nice of you. Which email should I use? The one on your blog?
Dhewco: Joe, does someone at Dystel represent Alt. Histories...or are they all thriller/mystery people?
Kinthu: How did you decide who got the Konrathic Queries? Did you shotgun, or home in on the agent(s) you wanted?
haknort: David---if your book is good, they'll want to see it
haknort: Kin--everyone in NY got one
Kinthu: So, you shotgunned
haknort: Everyone who repped genre fic
Dhewco: don't know if I want to send them my ugly mug, though
Dhewco: might scare them off
haknort: cheaper to shotgun without Xeroxing, postage, and SASES.
MrCheapo847: if you really like shorts, make an extension of Beavis and Butt-head
Kinthu: David, borrow George Clooney's. If a 17 year old college kid can lift a whole book---
PHeeren: (hi guys...sorry I was late)
haknort: and that's the secret of tantric sex... oh, hi Pheeren
WriterOfDreamz: hi Phee
MrCheapo847: where did you get the idea of the confession
haknort: That was a sicko story, wasn't it?
MrCheapo847: I thought it was real at first
haknort: Harry Shannon, a horror/mytsery writer, was doing a guest editor gig
haknort: He asked for something extreme
haknort: I don't like doing extreme stuff too much
haknort: prefer to leave it up to the reader's imagination
MrCheapo847: the hatrack was interesting
haknort: So I tried to write something gross, but all in dialog
haknort: no action, no exposition, no speaker attribution
haknort: it was an experiment
haknort: I've published some horror stuff
haknort: I like humor more
Dhewco: Deb, I thought I'd send my second grade school pick...I was a cute blond back then
wallywallydoodle: are there any writing books you'd reccomend in particular?
Kinthu: There ya go!
haknort: David--get a decent head shot---you'll need one for a zillion things once the book sells
MrCheapo847: how old are you?
Kinthu: (make sure the photog sells you the rights)
haknort: wally--the best writing book is sitting down and writing and finishing what you write.
haknort: just turned 36
W2PSushi: <-- putting in a plug for critique groups.
W2PSushi: (such as this one!) ;-D
Dhewco: Joe, I've heard of authors getting computer enhanced photos...that don't really represent what they look like...I might go for that. LOL
W2PSushi: book load of errors will not help you much . . .
Kinthu: Nah, David, just wear your T. rex mask and you'll do fine.
LGVernon: I look like a garbanzo bean, but I'm trying to work around it.
Mallie1025: Think how many books you can do in the next 36 :)
W2PSushi: (email me if you're interested.) :0)
haknort: I hope at least 2
haknort: A good photo is needed. So is a good website.
haknort: Get one if you don't have one yet/
Mallie1025: Does a blog work as well as a website? Or are they the same?
WriterOfDreamz: I have a pic of me when I was nine, at the circus next to the elephant. I'd submit that but my dad's written underneath it "Cadie's the one with the pink pink coat on."
Dhewco: Joe, do you plan to stick with the Jack Daniels for the rest of your career (kind of like John Sandford with Davenport)...or do you plan other series?
W2PSushi: Blogs can compliment a web site
W2PSushi: but the web site is more permanent
LGVernon: I just bought my domain name.
Kinthu: LOL Cadie - I did the same thing with my husband & Goofy at Dizz World
haknort: mal-- a blog allows for more personal interaction in a public way. Websites generate email, and have more content.
MrCheapo847: you should write stories about prison... and what happens inside
Mallie1025: Thanks Paul--geesh I had enough trouble doing the blog!
haknort: I plan on sticking with Jack for a while. If I became a big enough name, I'd happily do other things. But for now I'm locked into a contract.
Mallie1025: Thanks Joe--I had wondered what the difference was
Kinthu: How many books?
wallywallydoodle: Mr. konrath, thanks a lot for doing this, I feel like I know more about the writing biz every time I read your blog :-)
haknort: come again, Kinthu?
haknort: Thanks, Wally!
Kinthu: You said you're into a contract -- how many books did you contract for?
haknort: Three. Then I just signed for another three.
Mallie1025: I can't believe you pulled off a character named Jack Daniels lol
haknort: Just finished writing #4, which will come out in June '07
MrCheapo847: you've been... THUNDERSTR>:oCK
WriterOfDreamz: what's next? Herr Kronenbourg?
Kinthu: It's a female Jack, right?
Kinthu: At least, that's what I remember
haknort: Jack is a 46 year old woman
Mallie1025: Yes, Kin
Dhewco: when we had Piers Anthony in here, he commented that his editors/publishers/agents wanted nothing but Xanth now...He said it really frustrated him. I write series...but the most I plan is five in a series. Anthony's comments
Dhewco: persuaded me of that
haknort: Unless they throw a lot of money at you
haknort: Or the fans want more
OnlineHost: “wallywallydoodle” has left the room.
Kinthu: I heard him speak about that a while back, David. He's into other stuff and I believe they've re-released his Xanth pieces.
W2PSushi: take the money and hack! ;-)
Kinthu: He's sick of the publishing industry, that much is clear.
haknort: Publishing is a business
haknort: Business is about making money
W2PSushi: we had the founder of Mundania Press here, as well
Dhewco: yes, but he had to self-publish/POD publish some before they let him go with something else
haknort: I like Mundania
Dhewco: (or was that small press)
Kinthu: Yes, he went through a rebellious period. Can't blame him.
Kinthu: Both, I believe he said.
W2PSushi: ask away Tom, no protocol
PHeeren: do writers get mixed feelings in failures and successes, yes?
haknort: The secret to getting published is....
W2PSushi: : ; ; drum roll ; ; ;
haknort: ...writing a book that a complete stranger will pay $25 for.
haknort: Times 20,000
Kinthu: Well, that's the trick, isn't it?
Jayewriter: Oh is that all?
PHeeren: I always have normal feelings like most writers and volunteers
Kinthu: If it was easy, everyone would do it.
WriterOfDreamz: for me the secret changes a little
haknort: Feelings of both success and failure are fleeting
WriterOfDreamz: I write plays so the secret is getting them staged and then yelling "i'm here!"
PHeeren: I got my 1000 hrs bar last thursday at the Marriott
haknort: Something good happens, and you're happy
haknort: But then you need more
Kinthu: Feelings aren't a solid basis for any career IMO
PHeeren: i'm proud to be a hospital volunteer but i wish i would be a candystriper lol
WriterOfDreamz: but my poor victims have to pay all sorts of extra fees instead <weg>
haknort: Writing is actually the easy part.
WriterOfDreamz: I was in an amateur play a couple of years ago, 2 nights, our fees were nearly £700.
haknort: Staying published is harder than getting published
PHeeren: yes O l
PHeeren: yes I know how you feel, sir
haknort: If the latest book doesn't sell as well as the previous book, you don't get another deal.
Dhewco: I wish I could find a way to get past that 'not right for us' comment I've concentrated on the agents listed at www.agentquery.com (Keyword to: www.agentquery.com) in the scifi section...querying a scifi novel...not the alt. history (which is a few chapters from
Dhewco: I think I might try Joe's technique
PHeeren: writer, 700 pounds would be in us $$$ what?
Kinthu: One author I know recommends calling after the "not right" and asking what they LIKE about the piece.
haknort: Don't do that
PHeeren: do you know how much, guys? sorry
Kinthu: It's worked for me
haknort: about $1200
WriterOfDreamz: 1276 dollars
WriterOfDreamz: and some lose change
PHeeren: $1,276, correct, writer?
WriterOfDreamz: that included 3 copies of the script, music soundtrack, and performance license
haknort: If an agent ever says nice things about your work, but rejects it, send them something else along with a Xerox of their previous comments
WriterOfDreamz: Yes Phee
LGVernon: Joe, I have to agree with you about writing outside the box when it comes to a query letter. Although mine is not as 'outlandish' as your approach, I am getting plenty of notice.
haknort: Congrats, LG!
Dhewco: shoot, I'm talking about from queries alone...there's no 'piece' in there. (except for one agent I sent sample two pages to, which is what Miss Snark recommends when they ask for 'query only')
Kinthu: I don't see why we're not all sending these agents anything we want. It's not as though reading their guidelines & following 'em, means they're actually gonna read anything.
PHeeren: I must go check my bs and get ready for bed....send me the log, sushi, will you? thks
Kinthu: 'night, PH
Mallie1025: Night tom
Dhewco: night Tom
Jayewriter: You know it's interesting, I hear a lot of authors saying a different query got them noticed but every agent says follow the rules. Why is that?
WriterOfDreamz: night phee
haknort: Because agents need rules
PHeeren: night, W of D
Kinthu: 'Cause some of 'em are lazy, Jaye.
WriterOfDreamz: because agents are creature of habit
haknort: xIt would be insanity without rules
Mallie1025: Well I am all for some way to avoid that stupid synopsis!!
W2PSushi: [any of you who want a copy of this chat log, and don't already belong to W2P, just email with a request.)
haknort: They get 1000s of queries
Kinthu: They don't REALLY want your query unless it starts, "I just got a 6 figure offer & I need someone to look at the contract..."
haknort: Which costs big money to reply to
haknort: So they want SASEs
Kinthu: So some verkakte intern can stuff a rejection in, sight unseen.
haknort: They want sample chapters, so it's easy to keep reading if they like something
haknort: But most of the time they'll reject it after reading the first page
haknort: I've judged a few Writer's Digest contests.
LGVernon: Oh, Kin, what's aggravating to me is the personal, glowing response that says," Your writing is excellent; the book is great, but I'm just not the agent for you. I urge you to continue to send this out. I'm sure you will find representation
haknort: I've edited an anthology.
LGVernon: Well, heck, if they're that sure, why don't they just send me a phone number?
haknort: If the first page doesn't grab me, I reject it.
haknort: SO do agents
Kinthu: I hate those too, Linda. And especially the ones that don't say WHY it was great but not a fit.
haknort: If they liked it, send them something else.
haknort: You'll never turn a no into a yes
Kinthu: For all I know, they don't handle my subgenre at all, but they don't say so, so I'm left guessing.
haknort: Find agents through referrals, through other authors.
haknort: Then you'll get read, and you'll know what they rep.
LGVernon: Reminds me of blind man's bluff. Everyone else can see what's going on, except the person who's 'it.' I hate being 'it.'
Kinthu: Ditto. I feel yoah pain
haknort: Go to conferences. Meet writers. Buy them drinks. Get their agent's names.
Kinthu: I once queried an agent whose web site claimed "actively seeking clients." Turned out he'd stopped repping even the clients he had.
Dhewco: :: sends Joe a sample chapter::: Now, refer me. LOLOLOL
haknort: I do it all the time, David.
haknort: But make sure the chapter is awesome.
W2PSushi: I got as far as a full requested read
haknort: Start with action.
haknort: No exposition.
W2PSushi: no sale, but they did manage to pose the manuscript
W2PSushi: am still plugging away! (science fiction, folks.) :-D
Kinthu: pose it-?
W2PSushi: pose = lose
Kinthu: Oh, LOL
Kinthu: I had an agent. He sent to 9 publishers. Three of them lost the MS.
Dhewco: would you consider a prologue a 'sample chapter', it really is necessary for understanding the first chapter and succeeding materials
haknort: better be a dman good prologue
Dhewco: and it's got action
haknort: Writing groups are important
haknort: It's tough to crit your own work
haknort: Trade manuscripts with other writers
Dhewco: I had to add the prologue to the book...because my beta readers weren't reading until the 'reveal' where the main character comes to understand that what he thought was so, was wrong. (the antagonist was pretending to be a perv, but
Dhewco: had other motives not dirty)
Dhewco: people were so turned off by the thought of what the guy wanted to do...they weren't reading past the first chapter. (nothing graphic happens)
haknort: I have a download on my website that shows people how to crit
haknort: Print up some copies and give them to your readers
Dhewco: Is my screen froze?
Dhewco: guess not
WriterOfDreamz: no i'm just keeping my trap shut ;-)
haknort: This is an insanely difficult business
haknort: Don't give up
haknort: I didn't
Dhewco: Kristen Nelson is the only agent to ask for a sample for this book...and she turned it down....didn't get through the whole sample. Gave me the impression she was turned off by the antagonist's actions. That's when I added the pro
haknort: You may need to rewrite it so the actions don't turn people off
W2PSushi: I got a nice reject note from Nelson
haknort: I've had to do that
W2PSushi: ah, well
W2PSushi: been pitching to newer agencies that allow web/rtf submissions
W2PSushi: no printing or postage!
haknort: I do almost all of my querying online now
W2PSushi: ditto with Baen's Universe
Dhewco: no, I'm not sure that's the problem...because the man's actions are a big part of the secondary protag's switching of allegences..but I'll think about that some more
haknort: I wrote a book where the hero was dying of cancer.
haknort: It wasn't depressing at all, but the idea turned people off
haknort: He was a private eye
haknort: tough guy
haknort: who happened to be dying
haknort: Couldn't sell it to save my life
haknort: it worked for the book
haknort: but the book wouldn't sell
W2PSushi: now that you are famous . . .
haknort: I had to change it, or write another book
haknort: I'm not that famous yet...:-)
W2PSushi: Asimov used to say, they're under the impression they MUST publish whatever he wrote. (so don't let on . . . )
Mallie1025: That is because there could be no happy ending
haknort: Sure there could be...remission
Mallie1025: People still demand that most of the time
Dhewco: Edgar's Plight (Formerly called humanity), is about a boy who's injected with nanites which halt his age at twelve, prepubescence....people automatically assume the worst in this day of Jacko and the Catholic priests...even my
Dhewco: characters jump to that conclusion
Dhewco: but it's erroneous
Dhewco: as they learn by chapter fifteen
Mallie1025: People are uncomfortable around dying people--
Mallie1025: Now I would have bought that book:)
W2PSushi: funny, some of Robert J Sawyer's SF novels have dying protagonists
haknort: Sounds good, David
W2PSushi: dying of cancer, in his "Calculating God."
W2PSushi: so they can and have sold, at least in a few cases
haknort: What year was the first one published?
Soulofpanther1: Good Night Everyone - am falling outta my chair here
WriterOfDreamz: me too - goodnight
Mallie1025: Joe, I love Patterson and dave Barry--so if you are a combo of them you can't lose
Soulofpanther1: Thank you Haknort for speaking - and Thank you Paul for letting me sit in again:)
haknort: They're pretty funny books, but also pretty frightening
W2PSushi: That novel came out in 1997
W2PSushi: paperback in 99 [Note! I had the wrong title in mind; this one came out in 2000 and 2001.)
Dhewco: but people were so turned off, that they didn't get to chapter 12...which is why I wrote a prologue where the boy's father kills his mother...then arranges with the antag to cause the age-thing...It also explains a little more of
Mallie1025: But I will long remember that Jack Daniels character--that just cracks me up--in a book with a drink as its title
Dhewco: the antag's motive..the real one
haknort: Ha---I wrote mine in '92.
W2PSushi: remember, if you want a copy of the Log, or info about our writers group here, just email me. :-D
Mallie1025: We will get it automatically, right Paul?
Dhewco: Joe, thank you for coming, I've got to go to bed. I might take you up on that sample chapter. Thanks
haknort: It sounds good, David. But I could see how there would be some hesitation form readers.
W2PSushi: jeez, you were writing before you were out of diapers! ;-D
haknort: First novel at 22
Dhewco: I've got to get up at 4
haknort: And I still wear diapers
Dhewco: :: Snort::
Mallie1025: Good night David sleep well
Dhewco: cloth or disposable, Joe?
Mallie1025: Get used to them --you will be wearing late in life too :)
Dhewco: (just had to ask)
haknort: cloth... I'm earth-friendly
Jayewriter: Well since you're not wearing pants it's at least something
Dhewco: night, talk to you later
Mallie1025: Thanks Jaye now I have that image in my mind again!
haknort: Here's the way to get published:
Jayewriter: Watch out for those pesky safety pins with duckies though
W2PSushi: man I gotta go schmooze it up at BayCon
haknort: 1. Write whenever you can.
W2PSushi: maybe some agents will be there
haknort: 2. Finish what you start.
haknort: 3. Submit what you finish.
W2PSushi: have 2 and a half novels done now
haknort: 4. Repeat, while constantly trying to improve.
W2PSushi: good near-future SF ;)
haknort: Also, know the parable of the key.
haknort: Instead of a writer, you're a keymaker
Mallie1025: Well Joe, I am trying you--no time or patience for constant rejection
haknort: You can make any kind of key
rockynat: we've been in the wrong room!
Mallie1025: It is why I switched to newspapers where I am always published
haknort: House key, car key, key to the city
haknort: big, small, in between
Mallie1025: Don't have to deal with the mags anymore
haknort: You can make your key out of metal, paper, plastic, glass
haknort: And decorate it any way you desire
haknort: Paint, etching, guilding...
haknort: And when you've finished, you'll have a good looking key
haknort: A beautiful key
rockynat: is konrath here?
haknort: One of the most amazing keys every created
haknort: Now find a lock.
haknort: Publishing is like keymaking.
haknort: Research the lock before you make the key.
haknort: haknort is an anagram of konrath :-)
haknort: In other words--know your markets before you write a single word
haknort: You'll sell more if you understand who is buying
GaijinWriter: Drat! We just spent an hour in the wrong room!
haknort: Did you have fun?
Mallie1025: You can get the log--well worth it
rockynat: we talked about you behind your back
GaijinWriter: Where's the log?
haknort: Should have checked my blog....
rockynat: we got that site off your blog
haknort: heh heh. "where's the log."
haknort: Updated the blog today.
haknort: New chatroom.
GaijinWriter: Sorry... *chat newbie alert!*
rockynat: I was there today and hit refresh to check it
Mallie1025: There is a refresh in a blog?
GaijinWriter: So...do I get one question?
haknort: Maybe I should have used an easier to understand blog entry. It was "CHAT TONIGHT WITH JA"
rockynat: you refresh the page to make sure
Mallie1025: I will never get all this tech stuff in my intelligent brain!
haknort: kind of obscure
rockynat: you must remember the IQ theory
Mallie1025: Rock, there is a button for that?
W2PSushi: JA bomb!
rockynat: the refresh button on the top of your browser window
W2PSushi: or similar urban lingo of your choice
Jayewriter: It's the refresh button on your browser sometimes blogs get cached.
Mallie1025: Because my pic disappeared and maybe I can find it that way
haknort: I use the refresh button all the time.
haknort: It's pure vinegar and water.
rockynat: and all this time we thought you were sleeping
rockynat: too many rusty nails
haknort: You missed all the gratuitous nudity
Mallie1025: I will look for it look for it -- or call a kid to find it
haknort: You had to scroll down to see mine.
rockynat: your nudity?
rockynat: I'll have to get the chat log
GaijinWriter: JA -- Rocky pointed me to your bat video. Too funny!
haknort: thanks. My publisher didn't think so
GaijinWriter: There's no accounting for taste.
Mallie1025: Rats--now I have to go back to your blog :)
rockynat: he has no sense of humor, that's why he publishes and doesn't write
haknort: Sometimes I worry they don't get me.
haknort: But as long as they keep sending checks...
Jayewriter: As long as they keep buying that's okay
GaijinWriter: At least they gave you a cool cover. And they only made you cut out a few humor scenes. :-)
haknort: I like my covers
haknort: I've had to cut violence too
haknort: along with humor
GaijinWriter: Oh, gasp! Cutting violence is sacrilegious!
GaijinWriter: I'd love to see a cut violence scene posted to your blog.
W2PSushi: that's what I keep telling Sesame Street!
haknort: Here's the set-up:
haknort: Got a serial killer
haknort: grabs a guy
haknort: ties the guy up
haknort: tells the guy:
haknort: "I'm going to cut a small hole in your belly, pull out your intestines, and make you eat them."
haknort: Cut to a later chapter:
rockynat: and they had a problem with this?
haknort: Mulrooney tried to scream, but he couldn't. His mouth was full.
Mallie1025: What a tease--no nudity in the blog but great pics
GaijinWriter: LOL!!! Violence and humor!
haknort: That's the whole chapter
haknort: Two sentences
GaijinWriter: Ah, the Stephen King tact. Very nice.
Jayewriter: Did they give you any flack about the Halloween candy scene?
haknort: The reader knew what the killer was doing, so I didn't need to describe it.
GaijinWriter: Love those ultra short chapters.
haknort: But it was originally four sentences.
haknort: I had to cut the first two.
OnlineHost: “Uqtipie” has left the room.
haknort: They were:
GaijinWriter: What were the first two?
GaijinWriter: too slow...
haknort: "Here comes the choo-choo. Open wide..."
W2PSushi: paper is so expensive, soon ALL chapters will be 2 sentences long
GaijinWriter: Gah! Great!
Jayewriter: You're sick and I love it
haknort: No flack about the Halloween candy.
haknort: But Rusty Nail has a few scenes that are worse.
GaijinWriter: That short you did for the 'zine was deliciously sick.
rockynat: the ones herb eats?
GaijinWriter: You give me hope that some people will enjoy my book...
Mallie1025: I like Patterson's 2 page chaps--I feel like I am really moving along
rockynat: I felt that one
GaijinWriter: Can't wait to get Rusty Nail!
haknort: So, am I supposed to guess who you are by your screen names?
GaijinWriter: You can try *evil cackle*
Mallie1025: Joe, I have to go, but it was great meeting you and I will take your advice!!
haknort: Patsy Cornwell?
haknort: Thanks, Mallie!
Mallie1025: Night all
GaijinWriter: Don't I wish.
haknort: Are you on Canadian time?
GaijinWriter: Night, leaving people! I'm S. W. Vaughn. I'm on EST.
GaijinWriter: Hi :) I love your blog.
haknort: Thanks mucho
haknort: It's a fun blog
GaijinWriter: I'm totally in on the self-promotion camp.
haknort: I like all the arguing
GaijinWriter: You do seem like you're having a blast with the debates!
haknort: who are you, Rocky?
GaijinWriter: Gonna spend every penny of my ... er, paycheck (I didn't get an advance, sigh) on promotion. Eat Ramen for a year.
haknort: Splurge. Buy mac and cheese.
GaijinWriter: Yeah baby! Boxes of Aldi special, only 29 cents.
GaijinWriter: But then you gotta buy milk and butter...
W2PSushi: I know a guy (on line) who claims to live on white rice
rockynat: who am I?
W2PSushi: or brown if he can score some
haknort: Who needs milk and butter when water and bacon fat work the same way?
GaijinWriter: Really? I had a client once who said he lived on water for eight weeks.
GaijinWriter: Bacon fat...never thought of that one.
W2PSushi: lotsa calories in bacon fat
Jayewriter: No Joe, Jesus would turn it into wine
GaijinWriter: It was a fast diet. After he finished, he drank some vegetable juice and ran a marathon.
GaijinWriter: So sez he.
haknort: More like he drank some veggie juice and had a stroke.
W2PSushi: last time I tried that (for ONE) week, I went from 115 to 95 pounds
GaijinWriter: You could say that. :)
W2PSushi: could've used me for a charity poster
GaijinWriter: Really?? How did you feel afterwards?
rockynat: why ??? just why???
W2PSushi: I worked a long and full schedule
GaijinWriter: This guy said he felt great.
haknort: why what?
W2PSushi: felt woozy but otherwise fine
rockynat: so you figured you'd torture yourself?
GaijinWriter: Fascinating. Gonna have to try that some time.
GaijinWriter: Only for a week, though.
W2PSushi: your friend weighed 400 pounds beforehand, I suppose?
Jayewriter: Coffee I could see but just water?
haknort: Can you live on only water for a week?
Chidder: Joe, I liked your keymaker analogy, which suggests you see yourself as a craftsperson. Do you also see yourself as an artist?
GaijinWriter: Coffee is the nectar of the gods
W2PSushi: no coffee!
rockynat: yes coffee I understand
haknort: All writers are artists.
rockynat: french vanilla from Quick chek
haknort: But once you try to sell something, it becomes a craft.
GaijinWriter: That's right JA! Temperamental to the max.
Chidder: Nicely put.
haknort: Maybe if the water had some sausages in it.
Jayewriter: Or hops
rockynat: or coffee
haknort: that's how monks survive Lent
W2PSushi: craft makers do not go bonkers with some regularity
haknort: 40 days of it
W2PSushi: unlike some artists we've all heard of
GaijinWriter: That puts me out of the craft circuit...
haknort: I think writing, publishable writing, can be taught
rockynat: how long was your original synopsis for Blood mary?
haknort: But the only ones who want to learn the craft are artists to begin with
GaijinWriter: That makes sense.
haknort: BM was a 35 page synopsis, or around that.
GaijinWriter: 35 pages!!!
haknort: You can download it on my blog
Jayewriter: That's a first draft
rockynat: really? the whole synopsis?
W2PSushi: that's like 3 sample chapters
rockynat: I hate writing synopses
haknort: one chapter equaled one paragraph
GaijinWriter: And all this time I've been doing it in one.
W2PSushi: I beat myself silly in squeezing a plot synopsis to 1 and 2 pages
haknort: made it really easy to write the book
rockynat: aren't' you supposed to write the book first?
GaijinWriter: Oh -- you mean an outline?
W2PSushi: I like interwoven subplots and suchlike
GaijinWriter: Gotcha. :)
haknort: after the book, it's catalog or back jacket copy
haknort: I need to turn in a synopsis to get paid
GaijinWriter: Ah, so.
rockynat: can you change it?
haknort: I usually do
haknort: But the synopsis shows the publisher what I have in mind.
rockynat: your best advice was to create the character then torture the hell out of them
rockynat: I try to keep that in mind
GaijinWriter: Hey JA -- what are your thoughts on blurbing? Do you do it? Have others done it for you?
haknort: That's what readers want
W2PSushi: I am referring to after the novel is done
GaijinWriter: Torturing characters is the best.
haknort: I'm a blurb whore
W2PSushi: for un-Konrathian querying purposes
rockynat: I've never thought of them as 35 pages long! I thought one or two
GaijinWriter: You are? Can I buy you? :)
haknort: I blurb for beer
W2PSushi: I wrote a scene in which the bad guy disembowels himself
haknort: I've blurbed about 50 books
GaijinWriter: Wow... you're cheaper than Jack Canfield!
Jayewriter: Ouch Sushi
haknort: been blurbed by about 40 authors
W2PSushi: because the heroine figures out a time-travel trick
rockynat: just send beer
GaijinWriter: That's awesome.
W2PSushi: guts himself with his own bayonet, 20 seconds later
GaijinWriter: I am a great admirer of blurbing writers.
rockynat: especially if you ever need a blurb
haknort: You gotta pay it forward
rockynat: you know how to bribe him
GaijinWriter: I understand some authors don't even read the books they blurb.
haknort: I do
haknort: but it's tough
W2PSushi: blurb me please
rockynat: how do you find the time
haknort: I have about 20 book in my TBR pile for blurbs
GaijinWriter: Now I'm really impressed. You read and blurb and blog and write??
haknort: Sleep is for wimps
rockynat: do you sleep?
GaijinWriter: I've been known to say that.
haknort: crystal meth
rockynat: oooo, that works too
W2PSushi: <-- prefers tea
GaijinWriter: Yeah baby!
W2PSushi: dentists love meth. lotsa guaranteed business
haknort: because nothing helps the creative process like jacking your central nervous system with some shit cooked up in a trailer
GaijinWriter: Or an abandoned apartment building.
GaijinWriter: JA goes on the record to say, don't do drugs. :)
haknort: Don't do drugs... without me.
rockynat: or the basement
GaijinWriter: In that case, better get over here quick :)
haknort: Actually, I haven't done drug in about a decade.
Jayewriter: You've been reading Eisler's blog again haven't you
GaijinWriter: Not one drug?
haknort: They scare me.
haknort: Well, alcohol.
rockynat: thetas two
rockynat: go for three
haknort: nothing illegal.
rockynat: so now the query letter
GaijinWriter: There, that's three.
haknort: I once smoked some laced pot and freaked out for three days.
rockynat: what do you put in your bio if you are boring?
rockynat: more bang for your buck
GaijinWriter: OMG, that's not cool. Did you drive? Every car's a cop car.
haknort: I thought I was an orange
Jayewriter: You're a fiction writer... make stuff up
haknort: Tough to write, when you're an orange
rockynat: hmmmm, what if I get caught, I always get caught
GaijinWriter: Yeah, no fingers.
haknort: When the brain fog lifted, I quit drugs.
rockynat: not if you r writing about florida
GaijinWriter: Good move :)
GaijinWriter: For me, not since one of those cars actually was a cop car.
GaijinWriter: Years and years ago. Thought I was going to die...pulled myself over.
W2PSushi: we have a speed trap in front of our place
rockynat: remember the good old days when cops would join you
W2PSushi: motorcycle cops all day and evening
W2PSushi: 25 mpg on a long wide straight stretch with no lights of stop signs
GaijinWriter: What fun! We just had a motorcycle cop hit a tree up here.
W2PSushi: eaasssyyyy pickings
GaijinWriter: Good mileage :)
rockynat: with gas prices now days...that's how you measure everything
GaijinWriter: So JA, you sick of us?
haknort: of course not
rockynat: he fell asleep
haknort: I was just lighting up the one hitter
W2PSushi: <-- waiting for some success to rub off. ;o)
GaijinWriter: Hey, pass that over here. Just hold on to my keys...
haknort: Dude! Cop behind you!
GaijinWriter: Shit! *ducks*
rockynat: so how many agents did you query before you hit?
haknort: about 350
GaijinWriter: It was him, Officer.
W2PSushi: I need to query more
rockynat: did go after any publishing houses?
haknort: and about 150 publishers
Jayewriter: Holy crap, no wonder you changed tactics
W2PSushi: good average I suppose
haknort: tough biz
rockynat: its the game
GaijinWriter: Drat, and I'm only on Agent 127.
W2PSushi: but need to keep plugging . . . and finish that 3rd novel
haknort: I'm at about 550 rejections at this point
GaijinWriter: At least Publisher's out of the way. For now. Until the next book...
rockynat: do yo use them as wall paper?
haknort: just got one the other day
GaijinWriter: Ah, the rejection collection.
haknort: Keep them in a 5 inch binder
rockynat: who would reject you now? Insane
rockynat: i would probably read it just cause it had your name on it
haknort: If only the world thought that
rockynat: I keep them in a Mickey mouse can
GaijinWriter: It just keeps going and going and going...
haknort: But I like getting rejections
GaijinWriter: Are yours constructive?
rockynat: I got one back with nothing, no note, card nothing, just the chapters
haknort: Sometimes they're constructive, but still some form letters come in.
W2PSushi: I'm getting a few personal notes
haknort: But it keeps me grounded
W2PSushi: most recently from Stan Schmidt at Analog magazine
haknort: my head is already too big
GaijinWriter: Well, it's good to know the rejections will never stop.
rockynat: well, we have to keep you grounded, wouldn't want your head to swell
W2PSushi: close but no cigar ... YET
GaijinWriter: I got my own query letter back once with "Not for me" scribbled on it.
GaijinWriter: At least I think that's what it said...
rockynat: at least he wrote something!
haknort: I've gotten some nasty ones.
GaijinWriter: How nasty?
GaijinWriter: Wanna share?
haknort: "Stop sending me your work."
haknort: "This is the reason I hate being an agent."
GaijinWriter: oooooh, that is a LOW blow.
rockynat: I hate the little half slip of paper preprinted
haknort: "I'd represent this, but I was cursed with having good taste."
GaijinWriter: You're kidding...
W2PSushi: guess it's cheaper for them, than therapy
Soulofawriter18: you're joking, right?
haknort: No joking
rockynat: I probably have to retort to him
GaijinWriter: To quote this writer I heard: Holy sense of entitlement, Batman!
haknort: Nah... the best revenge is success.
GaijinWriter: You said it.
rockynat: yeah, or mailing him a fish
rockynat: let that sit in his slush pile for a week
haknort: Or a horse head
GaijinWriter: How bout a horse head bookend?
rockynat: too much postage
Jayewriter: That's a lot of stamps
haknort: horse head bookends?
GaijinWriter: Er, don't mind me.
rockynat: we're starving artists, remember
GaijinWriter: Obscure B-movie quote.
haknort: he has the IQ of a handball
haknort: and the personality of a parking meter
GaijinWriter: That's it!!
haknort: Malverd help make punch
haknort: Malverd pee red
rockynat: i still like the dead fish idea, it will stay with him, linger in his office
GaijinWriter: The producers of this film have asked me to take this moment to say...
haknort: f**k you
haknort: Student Bodies
GaijinWriter: You rock!
haknort: god, I watched that moves a zillion times when I was ten years old
haknort: I'm gonna kill the kid with the gum
W2PSushi: sigh, musta missed that one
GaijinWriter: LOL. I didn't find it 'til I was twelve.
Soulofawriter18: unfortunately I have to go to work in the morning...
haknort: the paperclip was my favorite
Soulofawriter18: so good night everyone
rockynat: mee too, who cares
W2PSushi: late on the east coast . . .
rockynat: I can sleep at work
W2PSushi: <-- on west coast
GaijinWriter: G'night Soul!
W2PSushi: as a truck driver I best not sleep at work
GaijinWriter: The trash bag wasn't too bad either.
rockynat: no one notices where I work
W2PSushi: not if I am right behind YOUR car!
haknort: I forgot who the killer was
GaijinWriter: Er...it was...um...the chick!
GaijinWriter: I think. No, it was the dude.
haknort: Not the principal, who keeps cheese in his pants to attract mice?
Jayewriter: Ok I have to rent this movie
haknort: Student Bodies
haknort: Good luck finding it.
GaijinWriter: Good luck finding it! I had to buy it from Amazon.
haknort: I have it on VHS
haknort: saw it on Beta originally
GaijinWriter: I don't think it made it to DVD.
haknort: Prolly not
Jayewriter: Great, tease us
W2PSushi: Rasputin Records
haknort: rasputin records?
W2PSushi: big shelves of used VHS tapes
W2PSushi: local chain in the Bay Area
haknort: you beta believe it
GaijinWriter: Do you still have a player?
W2PSushi: like starman
haknort: don't have a laser disk either anymore
W2PSushi: read it with your fingertips
GaijinWriter: Never had a laser disk.
Jayewriter: THose were the worst.
rockynat: what did you do to it?
haknort: do to what?
rockynat: your laser disk
haknort: threw it away
haknort: sold the disks
GaijinWriter: It didn't melt itself, huh?
haknort: the laser burned out
rockynat: so is there a forth book?
haknort: Just finished it
GaijinWriter: VHS -- nice and solid, takes a licking and keeps on ticking. No scratches!
haknort: DIRTY MARTINI
haknort: July 2007
rockynat: ok, step away from the beer
GaijinWriter: Nice title!
rockynat: so far away
haknort: VHS fades with time
haknort: magnetic track gets blurry
rockynat: everything fades
haknort: not HD DVD
rockynat: dvd's scratch
GaijinWriter: True -- but you can re-tape onto a fresh one.
haknort: I'm putting my tape collection on DVD
rockynat: I think they should put them in cases like the old 3 inch floppies
haknort: lots of old bad movies
GaijinWriter: A good idea, even if they do scratch
GaijinWriter: What's in your collection?
haknort: every bad horror movie every made
haknort: lots of cult stuff
haknort: about 5000 movies
GaijinWriter: Evil Dead, Army of Darkness, Young Frankenstein?
GaijinWriter: Now that's a lot of movies!
haknort: More like Godzilla vs. Gigan, They Call Her One Eye, Last House on Dead End Street
rockynat: the blob!
rockynat: remember that one?
GaijinWriter: Ooh, Go-zi-ra!
GaijinWriter: The Blob! LOL
Jayewriter: It Lives?
haknort: Larry Cohen
haknort: and Phase 4
W2PSushi: Guy in Boston, named Barry, runs the Temple of Godzilla web site
GaijinWriter: Whoops, mis-spelled my bad Japanese
W2PSushi: lots of cool stuff
haknort: I've been there
W2PSushi: we've been emailing for years
haknort: I liked Final Wars
GaijinWriter: Didn't catch that one.
haknort: I just picked up Son of Blob, directed by Larry Hagman
Jayewriter: THE Larry Hagman?
GaijinWriter: So terrible it's good, or just plain terrible?
W2PSushi: The Blob was written by John W Campbell, perhaps the single biggest 'mover and shaker' in SF's history
haknort: Who Goes There?
W2PSushi: you got it!
GaijinWriter: Did not know that!
W2PSushi: under a pseudonym
haknort: I just saw SLITHER
haknort: Very much a Blob homage
GaijinWriter: Did it live up to the hype?
haknort: it was okay
rockynat: and always Tremors
haknort: fun, but not over the top
GaijinWriter: Just caught Silent Hill myself.
haknort: I loved Tremors
rockynat: Kevin Bacon at his best
haknort: how was Silent Hill?
GaijinWriter: Tremors and Kevin Bacon are both awesome!
rockynat: I think its the only movie I ever saw him in
GaijinWriter: SH was great. Very creepy!
rockynat: silent hill is new
rockynat: supposed to be very good
haknort: like the video games
GaijinWriter: Definitely like the games
haknort: fun games
GaijinWriter: I saw Kevin Bacon live in Syracuse
GaijinWriter: Tons of fun! Love the creepy stuff.
GaijinWriter: Playing with his band. They weren't bad.
haknort: Well, I gotta get some reading done, so it is adios gang
haknort: This was fun
Jayewriter: Night Joe. Thanks for the great chat
GaijinWriter: Sure, make me get back to my WIP!
W2PSushi: glad to have you
rockynat: ciao for now
W2PSushi: you done W2P proud!
GaijinWriter: Thanks for the time, Joe, it was great talking with you!
haknort: great talking to you folks
W2PSushi: Joe will send you the log tomorrow
W2PSushi: spell checked, even
haknort: heh heh. The log.
rockynat: doesn't take much...
GaijinWriter: 'Night, all. Looking forward to the log *newbie blush*
W2PSushi: ask me!
haknort: heh heh
W2PSushi: if others want the Log
W2PSushi: I have no record of drop-ins, please recall
GaijinWriter: I want the log, please! Where should I email you?
W2PSushi: <-- this is my AOL screen name
W2PSushi: do not want to get busted for spam, so I only take requests :-)
GaijinWriter: Got it! Thank you, and g'night! Great website and service you have!
W2PSushi: see 'ya
GaijinWriter: c ya
5/1/06 9:17:07 PM Closing "Chat Log 5/1/06"
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